angelofdeathzz
Well-known member
Can your mantis crawl back in your fiy tank? What happens then....
how to hatch and feed Flies the easy way
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Looks good, not bad, not bad, but next time maybe ask me to drill hole in lid for you, the mesh is hard to cut thru, or use the cloth one with a hole. Must put on site, so much to do, so little of me..........me.......me....me....... eek!
Looks good, not bad, not bad, but next time maybe ask me to drill hole in lid for you, the mesh is hard to cut thru, or use the cloth one with a hole. Must put on site, so much to do, so little of me..........me.......me....me....... eek!
itzjustjeff
Well-known member
your mantis will think he/she died and gone to heaven. BUFFET TIME!
Termite48
Well-known member
Nick, the mantid the crawls into the fly container becomes a glutonous feeding machine and dies with a smile on his barf drenched face. Ha!
PhilinYuma
Well-known member
@Angelofdeath: "I feel strongly that gut loading the flies before feeding them to your mantis is very important, I know some will hatch the flies in the enclosure with the mantis, which ends up being poor nutrition for them. That's great, Nick. I feel that "gut loading" tritrophic feeders is a waste of time, so we can have a nice discussion.
I guess that i should start with my usual whinge about gut loading insects in general. This is one of the many practices that have been transferred, without much rhyme or reason, from the reptile hobby, where "gut loading" is used to provide the captive animal with minerals and vitamins that it would not normally get in captivity. No such issue obtains in the rearing of insects
An even stronger argument can be made against using honey as the food supplement. The mantis already has a good store of sugar stored as glycogen in its fat body. Is there any evidence that this is not enough? Also, of course, the insect's soluble sugar, trehalose, does not help growth, it provides quick energy, particularly for the flight muscles. Alas , most mantis nymphs don't fly much. Here is part of an Eclogue by Theocritus that deals with this very issue:
"Why does the bee like carbs, Papa?"
"Well, they are useful things
That give the bee the energy
To flap her tiny wings."
"And do they help her thrive, and grow,
And metamoph her oses?"
"No those are proteins, silly goose.
And lipids drive ketosis."
On the other hand, flies, though to a lesser degree than most bees, are hirsute, and these hairs trap pollen, which can contain up to 20% protein and other yummy stuff like vitamins, so i suggest that anyone seeking to supplement their mantids' diet should consider shaking their flies in a little pollen or yen's stuff in a plastic bag like Shake 'n Bake".
I guess that i should start with my usual whinge about gut loading insects in general. This is one of the many practices that have been transferred, without much rhyme or reason, from the reptile hobby, where "gut loading" is used to provide the captive animal with minerals and vitamins that it would not normally get in captivity. No such issue obtains in the rearing of insects
An even stronger argument can be made against using honey as the food supplement. The mantis already has a good store of sugar stored as glycogen in its fat body. Is there any evidence that this is not enough? Also, of course, the insect's soluble sugar, trehalose, does not help growth, it provides quick energy, particularly for the flight muscles. Alas , most mantis nymphs don't fly much. Here is part of an Eclogue by Theocritus that deals with this very issue:
"Why does the bee like carbs, Papa?"
"Well, they are useful things
That give the bee the energy
To flap her tiny wings."
"And do they help her thrive, and grow,
And metamoph her oses?"
"No those are proteins, silly goose.
And lipids drive ketosis."
On the other hand, flies, though to a lesser degree than most bees, are hirsute, and these hairs trap pollen, which can contain up to 20% protein and other yummy stuff like vitamins, so i suggest that anyone seeking to supplement their mantids' diet should consider shaking their flies in a little pollen or yen's stuff in a plastic bag like Shake 'n Bake".
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angelofdeathzz
Well-known member
Very good point, but are there no trace elements of pollen in the honey? It is winter and no pollen to be had outside here , wait no active bugs for feeders either, wow winter sucks. Yen's blend is a safe bet but I use 100% pollen for dusting, just didn't mention that thus far. I see it's my turn for philifacation...
lunarstorm
Well-known member
Phil, I dig your posts. But they would be easier to read if you used the board's quote system when quoting someone (hope you don't mind my unsolicited opinion). If you want a hand with learning any details, shoot me a PM, I'd be happy to help.
I'll also jump at the opportunity for a nice discussion, as I think I've got some learning to do here.
I'm with you on the concept of the reptile hobby's vitamin-gut-loading practices and terminolgy carrying over to mantids, as it's clear the hobbies share many similarities in tools, enclosures, feeders, etc. [disclaimer: despite catching lots of snakes, frogs, and lizards as a kid, I've never owned one]. I like to believe the two hobbies also share this tenet:
We can improve the general health of our captive mantids by ensuring their feeders eat things that are proven beneficial to insects in general (e.g. pollen, honey, etc.) We might not be able to replicate their wild diet, but we can at least ensure they're eating well (not overfed) and their feeders are too.
What's wrong with that?
I'll also jump at the opportunity for a nice discussion, as I think I've got some learning to do here.
I'm with you on the concept of the reptile hobby's vitamin-gut-loading practices and terminolgy carrying over to mantids, as it's clear the hobbies share many similarities in tools, enclosures, feeders, etc. [disclaimer: despite catching lots of snakes, frogs, and lizards as a kid, I've never owned one]. I like to believe the two hobbies also share this tenet:
We can improve the general health of our captive mantids by ensuring their feeders eat things that are proven beneficial to insects in general (e.g. pollen, honey, etc.) We might not be able to replicate their wild diet, but we can at least ensure they're eating well (not overfed) and their feeders are too.
What's wrong with that?
PhilinYuma
Well-known member
Not at all, my friend, and at least I know that when I discuss something with you, I won't be on the wrong end of some strange curse or malediction! Interesting point about pollen in the honey. There should be, but there often isn't. Some beekeepers see this as another conspiracy by China to smuggle in honey via other countries (analysts can identify where a particular type of pollen came from) but it is due to US customer demand. Apparently, just as we like our apples waxed and polished and our vinegar strained and pasteurized, we like our honey to be clear and sparkly and free from "contaminants" like pollen. So look for cloudy honey, and you might luck out!
Psychobunny
Well-known member
That has only happend once. So I cut some plastic screen with holes big enough for the flys
but the mantids can not get threw it, and hot glued it into the plastic pipe piece.
Problem solved!
Psychobunny
Well-known member
LOL!! actually, you are almost right. The one time it happened, the nymph was gleestricken to be in there.
The only way to get him out w/o releasing 100 flies, was to put it in the fridge to a few minutes and use a pair
of plastic tweezers to pluck him out of there!!
It did him no harm whatever!!
Termite48
Well-known member
How funny! That is one well fed nymph. I placed my Aussie giant L-5 nymph into the 32 oz deli. container where I am culturing Hydies. She feasted for part of the day with no competition and then I let her out. She seemed jubilant to get back into a net cage where the air is a bit nicer.
Psychobunny
Well-known member
I have a set of hole punching dyes to make the holes in the lids.
I do not glue the small deli cups inside the container because I want them to be able to slid
around inside it.
That way, I can possition them over the hole to dump in more food or water gel w/o having
to remove the lid.
I just got some Repashys water gel to make into cubes. Havent tried it yet.
It's clear, with no coloring, so stuff does not get blue stains!!
Had to look that word up, never heard of it!
dlemmings
Well-known member
Which word?
Repashy's? or Phils' tritrophic and hirsute?
I have to admit to googling "Eclogue by Theocritus"
Psychobunny
Well-known member
sally
Well-known member
Great thread, learned a lot. Maybe my flies won't die so fast now.
angelofdeathzz
Well-known member
I would ad, you should always buy pure honey made in the USA, if not your probable getting honey made in China(no lie) which means its been filtered, pasteurized and most of the good stuff is removed as well as bad things added.
Here's a link if anyone cares to skim though it.
http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2011/08/honey-laundering/
Here's a link if anyone cares to skim though it.
http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2011/08/honey-laundering/
humm interesting about the honey, who knew! I have been buying from my Marcs, a discount food store I think, but big here in OHio, honey from Germany, and I tell you it is like eating pure silk! I purchased 3 different kinds and the white one is the silk, the other two are ok, but this one, with peanut butter or just on a spoon, makes granny fat! Breitsamer Honig / Honey here is link!
Glitch
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I do something similar with my flies, but hatch them in a thin plastic half pint cup, with cheesecloth over the top and a stopper low on the side. Flies hatch out (sometimes) and i just paste some honey water on the cheese cloth. then for feeding time, take out the stoppers on the cup'o'flies and the mantis cup, push the holes together and gently tap, the flies just go in, no escapees.
Only issue i'm having is getting the flies to hatch, I bought a half pint of castor maggots, store them in the fridge and I'm finding the hatch rate to be very very low, more so as time goes on. Anyone got any tips to make my supplies last longer?
Only issue i'm having is getting the flies to hatch, I bought a half pint of castor maggots, store them in the fridge and I'm finding the hatch rate to be very very low, more so as time goes on. Anyone got any tips to make my supplies last longer?
