Huge size difference....

[yeatzee]

I looked up picks of iris oratoria and its wings dont look the same from what I could see.......Hmm I'll try and get some picks of her wings ASAP

So I currently have almost 7 ooths and counting thanks to two males. I have pics of them from my sisters P&S so i'll post em, I need to know wht species cause that would really really suck if all were infertile.

EDIT: Wait I couldn't find my own pics of the male, but i did find this (see attached pic). It looks relatively similiar to both my males, so wht species of stagmomantis is it?

 

[Orin]

Once I was sent a tiny, tan, adult female mantis that was about 1.25". I could not figure out what it was for a week because I hadn't considered at that size it could be a European Mantis.

 

[yeatzee]

Wht species is the male attached on the first page?

 

[Hypoponera]

Well, this will be much harder for you to check! There is only one way to tell the males apart. Male S. californica have 4 dark brown bands/stripes on the upper surface of the first four abdominal segments. You will need to lift both the fore and hind wings MORE then 1/2 inch this time. S. limbata males do not have the 4 brown stripes.

I do not know if anyone has S. californica in stock at this time. I have 2 males, but my female died shortly after mating and never laid an ooth for me. But they all came out of my back yard. So I will try again next year.

My S. limbata females are doing much better. They are laying! They also came from the back yard.

 

[cloud jaguar]

I found a pic of the inner wings of S. Californica versus S. Limbata at http://tolweb.org/tree/phylogeny.html Look under "mantidae images" and it is on page 1 of 2. Wow, the Californica definitely have different looking wings from the Limbata - in the pics you can see the multi-hued wings and abdominal bands tthat Hypoponera discussed.

 

[yeatzee]

Yea they are def. limbata. As for my male I only got to see for a brief second and the whole upper half of his abdomen was yellow. Thats all i could make out

 

[yen_saw]

The same observation was noticed as well from the wild collected Stagmomantis carolina here. While most of my captive bred species attain the same size as adult, the wild caught adult can vary greatly in size due to the amount of food intake. Obviously the larger one has been well fed compared to the underfed one. I might have seen it some where about how mantis could skip a molt and reach adult sooner in adverse condition which make them appear smaller.

 

[Rick]

These two were from the same ooth and kept under the same conditions:

 

[MantidLord]

The same observation was noticed as well from the wild collected Stagmomantis carolina here. While most of my captive bred species attain the same size as adult, the wild caught adult can vary greatly in size due to the amount of food intake. Obviously the larger one has been well fed compared to the underfed one. I might have seen it some where about how mantis could skip a molt and reach adult sooner in adverse condition which make them appear smaller.

Yeah, I read about that too, some mantids will reach adult hood at say L6 or L7 as opposed to L8 or L9. They appear much smaller than the "normal" grown mantids. So how do the inner wings of a carolina look opposed to a limbata/californica?

 

[MantidLord]

These two were from the same ooth and kept under the same conditions:

Sorry to double post, but I had the same slow development too with I. oratoria. A nymph seemed to stop growing for about two weeks, while its sibling continued to molt. By the time the "slacker" reached adult hood, the other mantid was all ready dead. They were kept in the same conditions with about the same amount of food. I wander what causes that?

 

[Hypoponera]

Don't know the cause. But both my TX and AZ unicorns have the same issue. I have 3 nymps still at sub-sub adult stage while several adult females have died of old age. Mine were all kept communally so conditions and food supplies were identical. Maybe it is a way of the species prolonging the availability of mates? Or possibly a way of overcoming a food supply issue that may occur randomly in the wild?

 

[rayg]

[These two were from the same ooth and kept under the same conditions:/quote]

Are those Hierodula membranacea? I'm seeing the exact same thing happening with some from the same ooth. A friend has one that has only molted once in two months while all the rest have molted four times.

 

[MantidLord]

Don't know the cause. But both my TX and AZ unicorns have the same issue. I have 3 nymps still at sub-sub adult stage while several adult females have died of old age. Mine were all kept communally so conditions and food supplies were identical. Maybe it is a way of the species prolonging the availability of mates? Or possibly a way of overcoming a food supply issue that may occur randomly in the wild?

I guess, but I wonder what makes them unable to molt? I mean it's not like the nymphs stopped eating, so wouldn't they be forced to molt anyway as a result of the expanding exoskeleton?

 

[Hypoponera]

Could be a beharioural response. Could be a genetic "switch" that alters metabolic rate due to some environmental input. Many possibilities but no firm answer!

 

[Kruszakus]

One molt less? It can happen from time to time...

 

[MantidLord]

Could be a beharioural response. Could be a genetic "switch" that alters metabolic rate due to some environmental input. Many possibilities but no firm answer!

But if the mantids are in the same environment, how would that alter one mantis but not the other?

 

[Hypoponera]

Actually, my unicorn nymphs are 2 molts behind. The last adult molted over a month ago. The first ones to molt to adult have already died of old age.

Like I said MantidLord, I have ideas regarding possibilities. But I have nothing solid otherwise. I am open to suggestions though.

 

[MantidLord]

I see. I do know that a nymph that I gave to a friend in Northern California virtually stopped growing. Only molting once to L3 in a month. It died for some unknown reason. I figured that it was the sudden change in humity, seeing that it was born here in Nevada. I can understand why that one stopped growing, but I can't understand individuals in the same environment.

Well, what do I know, hopefully someone has some input. Until then, I guess it back to stuffing the slackers and cooking them. And hoping that you get a breeding pair that matures at the same time <_<

 

[Rick]

One molt less? It can happen from time to time...

If you're talking about the pic I posted it was more than one molt.

 

[Kruszakus]

If you're talking about the pic I posted it was more than one molt.

Nope - I did not mean that. Sometimes there can be one molt less or one molt more with mantids - but I do not think this happened here, probably the result of something else.