I am new and need a few answers to get started ;-)

[Lantosea]

Hello all! I am new here. I have raised and bred reptiles off and on for 30 years. I have become enamored with mantids and want to get my feet wet. I have done a fair amount of reading here and think I have enough info to get started. I am about to order my first mantids and want to make sure I am going about it correctly.

1. I am trying to reach out to Davedood about his ghosts since they sound to be communal which I like and also easy for a beginner. I wanted to also order the Idolomantis diabolica from Exo but I am starting to think I may want to wait on those if I really need hands on first despite my general husbandry capability.

2. Is this enclosure a good one to buy for either of the above housing 10 or less ghosts or just 2 devils?
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000OAYXTK?keywords=exo%20terra%20cage&qid=1440681380&ref_=sr_1_1&sr=8-1
I believe in addition to the backing provided with the above I will need to add vertical and horizontal climbing twigs.vines with clearance for attaching during molts. Horizontal twigs attached to most of the screen top seems appropriate with verticals leading up to that area? Who sells live mosses? I have seen some comments of members donating some to others they trade with but I am willing to pay since I have nothing to trade at this time.

3. I plan on keeping them in S. FL under an outdoor shaded patio that gets natural indirect sunlight. Daytime temps range from mid 50s in winter (very few days does it stay under 65) up to 90 in summer. Nighttime temps range from low 30s in winter (maybe 5-10 days max) to low 80s in summer. I can control the temps with a heating pad regulated by a thermostat. Humidity here averages between 60-85%. Being outdoors I can always increase humidity easily but lowering would be tricky using heat light source to dry things up. I am not clear if with these ranges and the mentioned species if this may be necessary? It seems the more I read the more confused I get since there are so many outliers commenting from what the guidelines are.

4. My last and biggest concern is feeding. I have read about house and BB flies being staples along with supplements of various other insects. I used to raise BSF for the grubs to feed to lizards which were not too difficult. Do most of you raise your own flies? If yes, where is a good place for instruction on doing so for the BB? I think I can collect enough house flies just with using traps. Any advice on good traps? Lastly, where is a good place to order live flies until I get something setup?

Thank you all for the input, this appears to be a great community!

 

[CosbyArt]

Hello all! I am new here. I have raised and bred reptiles off and on for 30 years. I have become enamored with mantids and want to get my feet wet. I have done a fair amount of reading here and think I have enough info to get started. I am about to order my first mantids and want to make sure I am going about it correctly.

1. I am trying to reach out to Davedood about his ghosts since they sound to be communal which I like and also easy for a beginner. I wanted to also order the Idolomantis diabolica from Exo but I am starting to think I may want to wait on those if I really need hands on first despite my general husbandry capability.

2. Is this enclosure a good one to buy for either of the above housing 10 or less ghosts or just 2 devils?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000OAYXTK?keywords=exo%20terra%20cage&qid=1440681380&ref_=sr_1_1&sr=8-1

I believe in addition to the backing provided with the above I will need to add vertical and horizontal climbing twigs.vines with clearance for attaching during molts. Horizontal twigs attached to most of the screen top seems appropriate with verticals leading up to that area? Who sells live mosses? I have seen some comments of members donating some to others they trade with but I am willing to pay since I have nothing to trade at this time.

3. I plan on keeping them in S. FL under an outdoor shaded patio that gets natural indirect sunlight. Daytime temps range from mid 50s in winter (very few days does it stay under 65) up to 90 in summer. Nighttime temps range from low 30s in winter (maybe 5-10 days max) to low 80s in summer. I can control the temps with a heating pad regulated by a thermostat. Humidity here averages between 60-85%. Being outdoors I can always increase humidity easily but lowering would be tricky using heat light source to dry things up. I am not clear if with these ranges and the mentioned species if this may be necessary? It seems the more I read the more confused I get since there are so many outliers commenting from what the guidelines are.

4. My last and biggest concern is feeding. I have read about house and BB flies being staples along with supplements of various other insects. I used to raise BSF for the grubs to feed to lizards which were not too difficult. Do most of you raise your own flies? If yes, where is a good place for instruction on doing so for the BB? I think I can collect enough house flies just with using traps. Any advice on good traps? Lastly, where is a good place to order live flies until I get something setup?

Thank you all for the input, this appears to be a great community!

Greetings and welcome to the forum.

As with most new mantid keepers lately, you are best to avoid the majority of the exotic species (Idolomantis diabolica, Orchid (Hymenopus coronatus), Wandering Violin (Gongylus gongylodes), and most others). As those mantids will do very poorly and more typically simply die, as they require experienced care that even keepers who have them regularly can have issues with. Those species will leave you upset/mad, likely ready to give up the hobby, out of money, and with dead mantids.

Some recommended species are Ghosts (Phyllocrania paradoxa), Carolina mantis (Stagmomantis carolina), and perhaps a Miomantis - such as Egyptian pygmy mantis (Miomantis paykullii).

1. Send Davedood a private message, PM, from the ad you read. He may be sold out already or what not. Ghosts however can be found also at the forum sponsor sites BugsInCyberspace and MantisPlace. Ghosts are likely the best for a communal species but even they with proper setup/food/etc will still occasionally cannibalize each other - so be prepared as it does happen. Idolomantis are difficult even for those that have kept them before, with molting being a big problem, I would really suggest you avoid it for now (it is one of the most difficult to raise successfully).

2. That enclosure tends to be one of the more popular ones and should work great. I've found my mantids seem to enjoy twigs/branches; however, be aware that they may molt from low points on them and die in the process. To eliminate most of the molting problems place the vertical twigs nearly straight up and down with no low twig forks (cut off any small forks). Moss can be ordered online at garden/plants stores and some local stores as well. Although for moss many of us go and dig it ourselves in nearby areas (parks/wooded areas/fields/lots).

3. Ghost can tolerate temperatures between 65 and 85 F, but most keepers have them at room temperature in the middle. I would not recommend anything below 65 F as they will become lethargic and die. Humidity for them is 40% to 70%, with once again the ideal would be in the middle at about 55%. Excess humidity will cause molting issues as they will be unable to pull themselves free of their old exuviae/skin and will usually die from it, seems to be more common for too much humidity than not enough. Being kept outside you will also want to prevent sudden fluctuations in temperature of 5-10 degrees, or more, as this will cause them unnecessary stress and affect their health as well. You can read more about Ghosts from their dedicated caresheet here. The Idolomantis is again much more difficult than Ghosts, and should not even be attempted outside.

4. Very few people actually raise flies due to the awful smell and weather as most of us have cold winters. You can rear flies outside using a setup as described by Jay. I have found some articles online myself on doing it but you will have to spend considerable time to likely find what you want as it is not commonly done, or for that matter uncommonly done either. From trying various experiments/attempts with flies myself, mine would build up lots of moisture and no matter what food source was used they would quickly turn it into a very offense odor - so any attempts are best done outside. Most keepers will catch them in fly traps when it is warm enough outside, here is my article on traps (and I can typically get 60-150 from each trap depending on the trap bait (and if done early enough in the day can get two batches of flies from each trap). Other times of the year flies are bought usually in pupae form or sometimes spikes/maggots - the most common place to get them from is MantisPlace but there are many sources to order online with a bit of searching. Fly pupae are kept in the fridge but only are good for about 2 weeks. Also most Ghosts will prefer the larger GB or BB (Green Bottle or Blue Bottle) flies for the majority of their lives as the flies are much larger, and tend to be the most common caught in fly traps.

 

[Lantosea]

Greetings and welcome to the forum.

As with most new mantid keepers lately, you are best to avoid the majority of the exotic species (Idolomantis diabolica, Orchid (Hymenopus coronatus), Wandering Violin (Gongylus gongylodes), and most others). As those mantids will do very poorly and more typically simply die, as they require experienced care that even keepers who have them regularly can have issues with. Those species will leave you upset/mad, likely ready to give up the hobby, out of money, and with dead mantids.

Some recommended species are Ghosts (Phyllocrania paradoxa), Carolina mantis (Stagmomantis carolina), and perhaps a Miomantis - such as Egyptian pygmy mantis (Miomantis paykullii).

1. Send Davedood a private message, PM, from the ad you read. He may be sold out already or what not. Ghosts however can be found also at the forum sponsor sites BugsInCyberspace and MantisPlace. Ghosts are likely the best for a communal species but even they with proper setup/food/etc will still occasionally cannibalize each other - so be prepared as it does happen. Idolomantis are difficult even for those that have kept them before, with molting being a big problem, I would really suggest you avoid it for now (it is one of the most difficult to raise successfully).

2. That enclosure tends to be one of the more popular ones and should work great. I've found my mantids seem to enjoy twigs/branches; however, be aware that they may molt from low points on them and die in the process. To eliminate most of the molting problems place the vertical twigs nearly straight up and down with no low twig forks (cut off any small forks). Moss can be ordered online at garden/plants stores and some local stores as well. Although for moss many of us go and dig it ourselves in nearby areas (parks/wooded areas/fields/lots).

3. Ghost can tolerate temperatures between 65 and 85 F, but most keepers have them at room temperature in the middle. I would not recommend anything below 65 F as they will become lethargic and die. Humidity for them is 40% to 70%, with once again the ideal would be in the middle at about 55%. Excess humidity will cause molting issues as they will be unable to pull themselves free of their old exuviae/skin and will usually die from it, seems to be more common for too much humidity than not enough. Being kept outside you will also want to prevent sudden fluctuations in temperature of 5-10 degrees, or more, as this will cause them unnecessary stress and affect their health as well. You can read more about Ghosts from their dedicated caresheet here. The Idolomantis is again much more difficult than Ghosts, and should not even be attempted outside.

4. Very few people actually raise flies due to the awful smell and weather as most of us have cold winters. You can rear flies outside using a setup as described by Jay. I have found some articles online myself on doing it but you will have to spend considerable time to likely find what you want as it is not commonly done, or for that matter uncommonly done either. From trying various experiments/attempts with flies myself, mine would build up lots of moisture and no matter what food source was used they would quickly turn it into a very offense odor - so any attempts are best done outside. Most keepers will catch them in fly traps when it is warm enough outside, here is my article on traps (and I can typically get 60-150 from each trap depending on the trap bait (and if done early enough in the day can get two batches of flies from each trap). Other times of the year flies are bought usually in pupae form or sometimes spikes/maggots - the most common place to get them from is MantisPlace but there are many sources to order online with a bit of searching. Fly pupae are kept in the fridge but only are good for about 2 weeks. Also most Ghosts will prefer the larger GB or BB (Green Bottle or Blue Bottle) flies for the majority of their lives as the flies are much larger, and tend to be the most common caught in fly traps.

Thank you for the very thorough reply Thomas, you covered all of my concerns. I had PM'd Davedodd yesterday after reading his ad, just waiitng on some sort of reply but I will check the other mentioned sources. I had researched fly traps after posting this and ordered a couple for $8 shipped to try, but coming from China it will be a while so I will make one of yours from your thread for the time being. I will stick with ghosts for now and try the outdoor thing.

Thanks again for your time and insight, it is very helpful!

 

[CosbyArt]

Your welcome, glad it helped.

I know anything I have ordered from China takes about 2 1/2 weeks to arrive, so you have time to find some mantids. If you build a fly trap the one I gave the link to works much better then the 2-liter traps I've built. In reality the 2-liter traps have never collected enough flies to mess with - I'm guessing that either the 2-liter cone is not long enough to trap the flies, or because the cone and bottle are so transparent flies have a problem finding their way in.

 

[Lantosea]

Your welcome, glad it helped.

I know anything I have ordered from China takes about 2 1/2 weeks to arrive, so you have time to find some mantids. If you build a fly trap the one I gave the link to works much better then the 2-liter traps I've built. In reality the 2-liter traps have never collected enough flies to mess with - I'm guessing that either the 2-liter cone is not long enough to trap the flies, or because the cone and bottle are so transparent flies have a problem finding their way in.

Thanks again! I assume with L2 ghosts I will need fruit flies to start? I am thinking Davedodd may think I am an idiot since I read his ad as 10 ghosts for $30 plus shipping? I see they range from $10-24 each on the above two sites so I am now thinking he was asking $30 each? I guess I will wait and see how he replies since if indeed 10 for $30 I can cover my margin of losses being a beginner with 10 instead of 3-4.

 

[mantisman 230]

A few other tropicals that are not communal that you may want to look into would be the griffin mantis (Polyspilota griffinii), giant Asian mantis (Hierodula sp.) and any shield mantis (Rhombodera sp.) the double shield mantis is also an excellent species (Pnigomantis medioconstricta)

 

[LAME]

".... As those mantids will do very poorly and more typically simply die, as they require experienced care that even keepers who have them regularly can have issues with. Those species will leave you upset/mad, likely ready to give up the hobby, out of money, and with dead mantids."

Truth.

I always advise new members to work up to the more difficult exotics.

 

[Rick]

Hello all! I am new here. I have raised and bred reptiles off and on for 30 years. I have become enamored with mantids and want to get my feet wet. I have done a fair amount of reading here and think I have enough info to get started. I am about to order my first mantids and want to make sure I am going about it correctly.

1. I am trying to reach out to Davedood about his ghosts since they sound to be communal which I like and also easy for a beginner. I wanted to also order the Idolomantis diabolica from Exo but I am starting to think I may want to wait on those if I really need hands on first despite my general husbandry capability.

2. Is this enclosure a good one to buy for either of the above housing 10 or less ghosts or just 2 devils?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000OAYXTK?keywords=exo%20terra%20cage&qid=1440681380&ref_=sr_1_1&sr=8-1

I believe in addition to the backing provided with the above I will need to add vertical and horizontal climbing twigs.vines with clearance for attaching during molts. Horizontal twigs attached to most of the screen top seems appropriate with verticals leading up to that area? Who sells live mosses? I have seen some comments of members donating some to others they trade with but I am willing to pay since I have nothing to trade at this time.

3. I plan on keeping them in S. FL under an outdoor shaded patio that gets natural indirect sunlight. Daytime temps range from mid 50s in winter (very few days does it stay under 65) up to 90 in summer. Nighttime temps range from low 30s in winter (maybe 5-10 days max) to low 80s in summer. I can control the temps with a heating pad regulated by a thermostat. Humidity here averages between 60-85%. Being outdoors I can always increase humidity easily but lowering would be tricky using heat light source to dry things up. I am not clear if with these ranges and the mentioned species if this may be necessary? It seems the more I read the more confused I get since there are so many outliers commenting from what the guidelines are.

4. My last and biggest concern is feeding. I have read about house and BB flies being staples along with supplements of various other insects. I used to raise BSF for the grubs to feed to lizards which were not too difficult. Do most of you raise your own flies? If yes, where is a good place for instruction on doing so for the BB? I think I can collect enough house flies just with using traps. Any advice on good traps? Lastly, where is a good place to order live flies until I get something setup?

Thank you all for the input, this appears to be a great community!

1. Ghost mantids are a great starter mantis. I recommend you hold off for awhile on the devils. Some mantids like ghost mantids can be kept communally with success but this does not apply to the vast majority. Even with so-called communal mantids, you could get some cannibalism.

2. That enclosure will work but people that keep a lot of mantids would probably consider it overkill. I am not sure what the material on the back is made of but mantids may have trouble gripping it. You would want to add some branches (fake or some from outside are fine) but don't overdo it as they could interfere with molting. You may find that the larger the enclosure the more you need to feed in order to make sure everybody gets enough. I tend to keep most mantids in 32 oz insect cups. Those species that outgrow the cups get a larger enclosure but still on the small side. They don't need a huge amount of space.

3. You are certainly in the right location for mantids but I am not sure they will do well in winter, even in FL. If you can truly control the temperature in the coldest months then by all means give it a try. Many of the common pet species would fine in those temps and humidity. There are some species that like things a bit less humid though.

4. Don't bother trying to raise flies. It is a smelly, messy proposition. Bluebottle and housefly larvae and pupae are readily available and cheap. I typically buy pupae which are kept in the fridge. I take out some and put them in a 32 oz insect cup so they can hatch. I feed the adult flies honey. Place the container in the freezer for a couple minutes to slow the flies down and you can pick them out with tongs to drop into mantis enclosures. I also like crickets. Just be sure to get them from a good online vendor that is known for quality.

 

[mantisman 230]

georgiacrickets.com has a pretty good selection for crickets and other feeders, excellent quality and pricing

 

[Lantosea]

Awesome, thanks guys! I may size it down to the 18x18x18 but I want the terrarium look. I will either remove and replace with bark or place a few vertical branches against the back wall. I have decided on trapping my flies and moths since I think I can collect plenty for under 10 mantids year round. I hate keeping crickets, main reason I do not raise dragons or chameleons any longer.

 

[drotski]

Thanks again! I assume with L2 ghosts I will need fruit flies to start? I am thinking Davedodd may think I am an idiot since I read his ad as 10 ghosts for $30 plus shipping? I see they range from $10-24 each on the above two sites so I am now thinking he was asking $30 each? I guess I will wait and see how he replies since if indeed 10 for $30 I can cover my margin of losses being a beginner with 10 instead of 3-4.

I got ghosts from Dave a couple weeks ago, they are indeed 10 for $30 plus shipping...and he tosses in a couple extra if he has them. I got 12 for $42 shipped. Great deal!

 

[Lantosea]

I got ghosts from Dave a couple weeks ago, they are indeed 10 for $30 plus shipping...and he tosses in a couple extra if he has them. I got 12 for $42 shipped. Great

Thanks for the heads up, still waiting on a reply from him.

 

[CosbyArt]

Thanks again! I assume with L2 ghosts I will need fruit flies to start? I am thinking Davedodd may think I am an idiot since I read his ad as 10 ghosts for $30 plus shipping? I see they range from $10-24 each on the above two sites so I am now thinking he was asking $30 each? I guess I will wait and see how he replies since if indeed 10 for $30 I can cover my margin of losses being a beginner with 10 instead of 3-4.

Indeed fruit flies for the first few instars, check their actual size with Dave and if they are eating Melanogaster or Hydei FF's, as I've had Ghosts that were supposed the same instar but about the half size of the others.

Not sure what he is price he has them for, but often the breeder is ready to off load some of the hundreds of mantises, so they often go for a bargain in the classifieds here on the forum.

 

[hibiscusmile]

welcome

 

[PlayingMantis]

Start off with ghosts. I got 10 plus extras from Davedood and they end up averaging only 3-4 bucks each. I got them as L2s, so if you plan to get L2s, be sure to have a fruit fly culture ready. Drosophila melanogaster and Drosophila hydei work well. Hierodula's are also good beginner mantises. Despite their lack of cryptic parts, they are large in size and are easy to handle.

As people mentioned earlier, idolos are not a good choice for your first mantis. In addition, I do not recommend ordering nymphs from overseas, as they are likely to die in transit, among other reasons (import restrictions).

 

[Lantosea]

Start off with ghosts. I got 10 plus extras from Davedood and they end up averaging only 3-4 bucks each. I got them as L2s, so if you plan to get L2s, be sure to have a fruit fly culture ready. Drosophila melanogaster and Drosophila hydei work well. Hierodula's are also good beginner mantises. Despite their lack of cryptic parts, they are large in size and are easy to handle.

As people mentioned earlier, idolos are not a good choice for your first mantis. In addition, I do not recommend ordering nymphs from overseas, as they are likely to die in transit, among other reasons (import restrictions).

Thanks, I am set on ghosts. Davedodd is not responding, but I have an offer from another member or $10 each at www.bugsincyberspace.com . The only thing is those cost are 4-5x more for 10 of them shipped. I am just concerned about losses with them being my "test run" so while I hate to lose the little buggers I also do not want to throw away $150+

 

[drotski]

Sometimes Dave is away for work or expos, he can take almost a week to respond if that is the case...when he is home, he responds quickly. Maybe a polite follow up message is due?

 

[Lantosea]

Davedood did reply and is sending me 10 ghosts next week. I will update here once I have them and everything is setup. Thanks to all!

 

[twolfe]

Welcome to the forum and hobby! I've been keeping ghost mantids for almost five years. It's always fun to see what colors you end up with as adults. I've never kept communal nymphs in that large of an enclosure. Please keep us posted on how they do. I feed my L2 Hydeis. Good luck!