i want this mantis..Idolomantis diabolica?

[yen_saw]

Yen :The reason for this Yen, is that they don't have the "suction cups" under their feet as most other mantids have (none of the Empusidae has these ? )

That's interesting Thoer. I was not aware that mantis has "suction cups" foot like those in gecko/lizard.

HiWell, In germany there are about 4 or 5 breeders maximum. Luckily these guyes know what they are doing.

I have pretty lot experience in breeding Empusidae like Gongylus or Idolomorpha (Yes, no Empusidae can climb on glass, but not every mantid looking like a Empusidae is one. For example Zoolea or the different kinds os Vates, Pseudo- and Phyllovates or Sibylla are no Empusidae. Some of them can climb glass).

I spend about 300,-Euro in Idolomantis (about 15 animals approx. L5) and I was not lucky with them. They made my hair become gray! I got two pairs adult at the same time. The males even tried to mate but they just did not do it correct!

Now there are two tribes in captivity. Whan I was keepin Idolomantis, I was even keeping the one tribe which is more easy to keep than the other!!! And I failed.I cannot tell from where they are because there are eough people destroying the african nature. But two tribes are in captivity for some generations while all other imports failed!!! Do not export wildcaughts, you are waisting money. By them from the breeders, and maybe with big experience and luck you are not waisting money.

You need exactly 30C°daytime and 20°Cnighttime. You must use only butterflies, moth and flies. You must alsways feed the food with honey or catch the food in the wild. Most "fly-nets" as you use them for windows to keep out the flies are good for them. But not for instar7 and older instars. You must offer thin twigs to them. You can keep them together very easy because they are not agressive, but because of their size you need boxes about 60x60x60cm for about two adults.

Yes, the most easy way ist getting casters from fisherman-bait-shops and feed the flies with honey.

There is a magazin in Germany with two articles with ALL information on Idolomantis. Christian and the other breeders wrote it. But, I'm sorry, the text is written in german language.

Best regards, tier

PS: Here are 84 nice pics of them:

http://ttwebbase.dyndns.org/mantid/view/78.html

Thanks Tier for the info. Your story is making me nervous

, although i am doing everything according to advice given here. Also noticed that they like thin branches, and they will also move close to light/heat source.

So 2'x2'x2' for only 2 adult. hmmm... i was planning to put about 30+ adults (if they all moult alright for me) in a large net cages as follow. (My son is about 4'10")

 

[ThorEH]

The ends of their legs look just like any other mantis. They must be heavier. Their mouthparts also look the same as all other mantids. They probably just prefer flies.

U can't see these things with the naked eye.

As for the legs, It's got nothing to do with weight, a L1 idolomantis isn't any heavier than another L1 nymph. And a adult Idolomantis isn't any heavier than, say a adult Chinese, still none of the Idolomantis (or any other Empusidae) can climb glass - because their feet is built up in another way

Yes the mouthparts look the same, but they are "made" for another purpose.. All that has tried to feed their Idolomantis with other insects than "soft" ones has ended up with dead Idolomantis.

 

[joossa]

Has anyone ever read up on what the species eats in it's natural environment? This may lead to a conclusion on why they prefer and do better with flies.

Lot of good info in this topic!

 

[joossa]

Yen :The reason for this Yen, is that they don't have the "suction cups" under their feet as most other mantids have (none of the Empusidae has these ? )

No mantids have suction cups.... they have hooks just like other insects and spiders. <_<

 

[ThorEH]

They eat flying insect, such as flies, butterflies and moths

Was hoping Christian could get into this post and clearify things..

 

[ThorEH]

No mantids have suction cups.... they have hooks just like other insects and spiders.

hence the " "

 

[AFK]

it should not be a surprise whatsoever that only some mantises have arolias (suction cup pads found at the tarsal base between the tarsal claws). it's quite common that only certain members of any given insect group possess arolias while others in the group do not. in the wild, arolias allow insects to climb the smooth surfaces of leaves; in captivity, arolias allow insects to climb glass. for example, not all ants have arolias.

 

[tier]

Hi

I have had a discussion with Christian.

It's Arolii (plural) or Arolium (single), all mantids have them.

But members of the Empusidae do just have Arolii which do not allow them to walk on glass. They have a special kind of Arolii because they live in twigs but not in leaves.

Now Christian an I are not 100% sure that Blepharopsis cannot climb glass. Both of us used to keep them, but it was years ago. Christian told me that Blepharopsis are very original (~not very specialised) Empusidae. Maybe they can climb glass???

Can anyone help? Is your Blopsis able to climb glass???

And yes, in nature they capture bies and bumble-bies, butterflies, wasps, flies and maybe moth.

Regards

 

[joossa]

From my understanding, the Arolium is not a suction cup at all. It is a pad-like projection of the leg that allows for more surface area to come in contact with whatever the individual is grasping onto. Thus, allowing ease of locomotion on difficult surfaces.

I guess we shouldn't use simple terms such as "suction cups" in order to avoid confusion.

 

[yen_saw]

Can anyone help? Is your Blopsis able to climb glass???Regards

my Bleph. mendica can climb plastic wall no problem. Even Empusa sp. in my culture can climb crystal clear plastic wall better than any of the ground mantis (L. minor) here in Texas which is really terrible in climbing smooth surface. What i noticed on my idolomantis however is that they only use the very last tip of their feet - basically two little hook-like toes - to hang on if you provide only mesh screen netting. Unlike other mantis species like Parasphendale, Hierodula, Rhombodera or Sphodromantis sp. which used the entire foot when climbing smooth surface. So thin branches with rough surface probably work the best for idolomantis when it comes to moulting. Although half of my idolomantis moulting alright from mesh screen. Anyway, thanks for the info Tier.

 

[tier]

Although half of my idolomantis moulting alright from mesh screen. Anyway, thanks for the info Tier.

Hi

And this is the problem: They will moult on the mesh-screen if you offer the chance to reach one.

50% will fall down while moulting from mesh-screen (the older, the more).

And 100% of adults moulted adult on mesh screen will have spread-up wings fur sure.

So 2'x2'x2' for only 2 adult. hmmm... i was planning to put about 30+ adults (if they all moult alright for me) in a large net cages as follow. (My son is about 4'10")

In fact the enclosure is not perfect for Idolomatis, but German breeders use similar ones or even small tents.

You must make sure twigs are reachable everywhere.

The other Problem is that they do not only catch flying flies but also walking flies. If they catch the walking fly while walking on these window-flie-mesh-nets, the mantids' claws will become destroyed the more the older the mantid becomes. It depends on the corralation between size of feet of the different instars and the wide of the wire-netting:

A special size of wire-netting can be wonderfull for instar 1-3 while instar 4 is destroying it's feet on it.

But you can use these enclosures, I guess. I would use two of them. I would lay them down on the floor and put 2 x 40W lamps directly above each of them. You should can keep about maximum 15 males in one and maximum 15 females in the other one. But remember: I'm not a breeder of this species

Regards,

 

[Mantida]

HiAnd this is the problem: They will moult on the mesh-screen if you offer the chance to reach one.

50% will fall down while moulting from mesh-screen (the older, the more).

And 100% of adults moulted adult on mesh screen will have spread-up wings fur sure.

In fact the enclosure is not perfect for Idolomatis, but German breeders use similar ones or even small tents.

You must make sure twigs are reachable everywhere.

The other Problem is that they do not only catch flying flies but also walking flies. If they catch the walking fly while walking on these window-flie-mesh-nets, the mantids' claws will become destroyed the more the older the mantid becomes. It depends on the corralation between size of feed of the different instars and the wide of the wire-netting:

A special size of wire-netting can be wonderfull for instar 1-3 while instar 4 is destroying it's feed on it.

But you can use these enclosures, I guess. I would use two of them. I would lay them down on the floor and put 2 x 40W lamps directly above each of them. You should can keep about maximum 15 males in one and maximum 15 females in the other one. But remember: I'm not a breeder of this species

Regards,

Oh my. This species sounds like a killer 24/7-care-watching-or-it'll-die species.

 

[asdsdf]

I know. :blink:

 

[macro junkie]

mayby in a few years but for now this one isnt for me..to picky.

 

[tier]

Hi

I was talking of "feet" but I wrote "feed" in my last contibution. I edited it but it is still wrong in the quote above.

Sorry for confusion.

 

[spawn]

I have to say, the last time I read one of Christian's comments regarding Idolomantis, he pointed out that people point-blank just put them in wrong conditions which is why they have such high mortality rates in captivity. He said they should be just as successful as any other species (like Hierodula) if given the proper husbandry.

 

[Christian]

I have to say, the last time I read one of Christian's comments regarding Idolomantis, he pointed out that people point-blank just put them in wrong conditions which is why they have such high mortality rates in captivity. He said they should be just as successful as any other species (like Hierodula) if given the proper husbandry.

This is exactly the point. They survive short-term anomalous conditions, but react on wrong middle- and long-term conditions very thoroughly. However, I do not have much problems with wrong meshes. I just avoid metal fabric.

The food issue has nothing to do with their mandibles. They are typical mantid mandibles, and Idolomantis also can eat hard-tissued insects. They just prefer airborne prey, usually large hymenopterans and butterflies/moths. As such food is badly available in captivity, one uses flies most of the time. For larvae they are best, but adults need something more... substantial from time to time. Once my females fed preferably on conspecific males, just because they were flying around in the cage...

Crickets should be avoided, there were some unexplainable deaths after the consumption of them. But I feed sometimes male roaches from a pincer. You have to make them fluttering around before.

However, after a few generations, there aren't many breeders left. And the ones who left never know if this generation isn't their last. Definitely not a beginner species.

Regards,

Christian

 

[yen_saw]

Lost my first idolomantis through mismoulting (subadult female) today. What a bummer!

This is the one traded from Germany, appear to lose grip while moulting. I am moving the other surviving idolomantis from Germany to another taller cage so the branches wouldn't reach the top, they are now all hanging on the branches instead, will see if that helps. Luckily, the other batch reared from hatchling are moulting alright, finger crossed.

I put her into freezer, and later on had time to "manually" put a threat post

 

[macro junkie]

sorry to here that yen..i want these so bad..so they live toghther>?if i where to get a big tent like yours..a big plant with lots of wooden branches..a heat light and make sure there hot all the time and lots of flys..am i missing any thing out?i want to get a ooth in summer time and give them a go...do u ship to uk? do u think if i put an order in now for an ooth u could have 1 for me just before the summer time next year.great pic by the way.

 

[macro junkie]

sorry to here that yen..i want these so bad..so they live toghther>?if i where to get a big tent like yours..a big plant with lots of wooden branches..a heat light and make sure there hot all the time and lots of flys..am i missing any thing out?i want to get a ooth in summer time and give them a go...do u ship to uk? do u think if i put an order in now for an ooth u could have 1 for me just before the summer time next year.great pic by the way.