Idolomantis ooth help

[idol]

I acquired a diabolica ooth in the mail today, and I was wondering if there are any specifics or tested true methods for this specie's ooth specifically. I see hearsay about keeping them just like the nymphs, some people say hot and dry, some people say hot and humid, and some people say room temperature works fine. Sources about this species are very inconsistent as well, I see people saying that in order for them to molt, they need a ton of humidity(with ventilation of course), but other sources say hot and dry to replicate African weather is the way to let them molt, saying that the sheds crack off until subadult and don't require much humidity. However, molting and incubating are two very different issues, and I'd like to hear about tested and true methods. I'm worried about using a heat lamp, because even though Idolomantis are a heat-loving species, I'm afraid I'll cook them when they're liquidy eggs. I currently am keeping them in a well ventilated cup, on a foam platform with a water droplet on the opposite side of the cup for humidity. I don't think that's very ideal. Any suggestions?

 

[hibiscusmile]

Sounds like it is ok.

 

[hysteresis]

I acquired a diabolica ooth in the mail today, and I was wondering if there are any specifics or tested true methods for this specie's ooth specifically. I see hearsay about keeping them just like the nymphs, some people say hot and dry, some people say hot and humid, and some people say room temperature works fine. Sources about this species are very inconsistent as well, I see people saying that in order for them to molt, they need a ton of humidity(with ventilation of course), but other sources say hot and dry to replicate African weather is the way to let them molt, saying that the sheds crack off until subadult and don't require much humidity. However, molting and incubating are two very different issues, and I'd like to hear about tested and true methods. I'm worried about using a heat lamp, because even though Idolomantis are a heat-loving species, I'm afraid I'll cook them when they're liquidy eggs. I currently am keeping them in a well ventilated cup, on a foam platform with a water droplet on the opposite side of the cup for humidity. I don't think that's very ideal. Any suggestions?

My finding is that humidity of the ooth is most important. I kept mine humid and "hotter than warm", spraying it directly. Good ventilation but pretty humid.

Id fill a terrarium with substrate, moisten it, and warm the whole thing like an incubator.

I kept 1st instar nymphs humid and hot as the ooth. 2nd instar I stopped managing substrate for humidity, focusing always on internal hydration.

Honestly, I think 85degF is fine. And the subadult molt people dread with super high humidity... this time I worried less about humidity and more on how much moist feed they took in. Best molts to date! I do keep the substrate humid at sub though, I just don't obsess on that.

Finally, line your subadult enclosure top and sides because... it will need side support to negotiate its flip cleanly. It sees a high risk of falling at the flip without something good to grab onto at its side.

 

[idol]

My finding is that humidity of the ooth is most important. I kept mine humid and "hotter than warm", spraying it directly. Good ventilation but pretty humid.

Id fill a terrarium with substrate, moisten it, and warm the whole thing like an incubator.

I kept 1st instar nymphs humid and hot as the ooth. 2nd instar I stopped managing substrate for humidity, focusing always on internal hydration.

Honestly, I think 85degF is fine. And the subadult molt people dread with super high humidity... this time I worried less about humidity and more on how much moist feed they took in. Best molts to date! I do keep the substrate humid at sub though, I just don't obsess on that.

Finally, line your subadult enclosure top and sides because... it will need side support to negotiate its flip cleanly. It sees a high risk of falling at the flip without something good to grab onto at its side.

I see. What’s your opinion on keeping Idolomantis dry and hot before subadult? It seems you have a lot of experience so maybe you could clear up some misconceptions that I received from different sources. heck, the person who sent me the ooth told me to keep the ooth hot and dry! So many people with conflicting ideas makes it hard and confusing to keep Idolomantis, which are already rather hard to acquire in the first place. 
 

It seems that your idea for an incubator sounds interesting, however I cannot say that I’m completely on board because there’s a stick and a part of a leaf lodged in the ooth that could very easily mold. I have terrible luck with mold, so I’m not exactly sure if it’d be the safest idea to directly spray the ooth as well. If I were to use the incubator method as you mentioned, how would you set it up? Usually, a heat lamp probably would only heat from the top, making it hard to gauge heat if I wanted to add adequate ventilation through a screen lid. 
 

I’ll definitely keep the feeding and moisture tips you gave me in mind when feeding the nymphs, given that the ooth doesn’t die in my care in the first place. Currently, I plan on keeping it in an open deli cup with a droplet on the side for the time being until I decide where to put the ooth permanently, since I don’t think it’ll be hatching anytime soon. 
 

I also see sources saying not to put any substrate in fear of the tarsi not being able to help them flip themselves over in case they fall since the substrate would be too loose. At any rate, thank you for sharing your experience! I’d really love to have a lot of my newbie misconceptions cleared if possible as well.

 

[hysteresis]

I see. What’s your opinion on keeping Idolomantis dry and hot before subadult? It seems you have a lot of experience so maybe you could clear up some misconceptions that I received from different sources. heck, the person who sent me the ooth told me to keep the ooth hot and dry! So many people with conflicting ideas makes it hard and confusing to keep Idolomantis, which are already rather hard to acquire in the first place. 

I keep them hot and dry from 2nd instar to subadult because it's easy. I add moisture again at subadult but I know now that the moisture you put into the idolo through food (and drink if you can get them to) is more important. I don't have a lot of experience, but i've successfully matured 5 males to date. Today I have two adult males and three sub females. The oldest is due at any moment.

It seems that your idea for an incubator sounds interesting, however I cannot say that I’m completely on board because there’s a stick and a part of a leaf lodged in the ooth that could very easily mold. I have terrible luck with mold, so I’m not exactly sure if it’d be the safest idea to directly spray the ooth as well. If I were to use the incubator method as you mentioned, how would you set it up? Usually, a heat lamp probably would only heat from the top, making it hard to gauge heat if I wanted to add adequate ventilation through a screen lid. 

Take what you want, and leave the rest. You asked for input and here's what I have to offer.   

Most of my ooths had leaves and twigs in the foam, and none molded at all.  I have a heat lamp w a temp regulator. Id set it to 85degF at the probe.

I also see sources saying not to put any substrate in fear of the tarsi not being able to help them flip themselves over in case they fall since the substrate would be too loose. At any rate, thank you for sharing your experience! I’d really love to have a lot of my newbie misconceptions cleared if possible as well.

I haven't heard that one. A fall during flip onto bare glass is likely to hurt the mantis. Maybe substrate would cushion its fall? Don't know.

I have paper towel now, but i've also used sphagnum.

But thinking about how an idolomantis might molt in the wild, it would likely have other branches or even grasses off to the sides, to hang onto to as it flips.

So my preference is a taller narrower enclosure with shelf liner up top, and two adjacent sides so it caneasily reach out and stabilize itself as it flips.

My pleasure to offer what I can.

 

[idol]

I keep them hot and dry from 2nd instar to subadult because it's easy. I add moisture again at subadult but I know now that the moisture you put into the idolo through food (and drink if you can get them to) is more important. I don't have a lot of experience, but i've successfully matured 5 males to date. Today I have two adult males and three sub females. The oldest is due at any moment.

Take what you want, and leave the rest. You asked for input and here's what I have to offer.   

Most of my ooths had leaves and twigs in the foam, and none molded at all.  I have a heat lamp w a temp regulator. Id set it to 85degF at the probe.

I haven't heard that one. A fall during flip onto bare glass is likely to hurt the mantis. Maybe substrate would cushion its fall? Don't know.

I have paper towel now, but i've also used sphagnum.

But thinking about how an idolomantis might molt in the wild, it would likely have other branches or even grasses off to the sides, to hang onto to as it flips.

So my preference is a taller narrower enclosure with shelf liner up top, and two adjacent sides so it caneasily reach out and stabilize itself as it flips.

My pleasure to offer what I can.

Ah, thank you a lot! I hope I didn’t come off as rude or condescending! I plan on using one of those big butterfly mesh cages to house these communally, and even though it’s a bit visually unappealing, they’re cheap, see through, and have cloth mesh around that they can use to their advantage. I asked about the substrate under the impression that it has grippy butterfly net mesh on the bottom. 
 

Is there any incubation enclosure that you suggest I can use(amazon link maybe hahaha). I think the ventilation will get rid of any fear of mold, so I do have a Kritter Keeper I can empty out and use to moisten substrate and then heat. 
 

Also, I’m extremely unfamiliar with heat lamp brands and which lamp/bulb etc. would be effective for diabolicas. I have one of those temperature controllers I can hook one up to since I have a heat cable that I don’t really use anymore. My expertise in mantids mainly lie in those that can take my natural climate, plus a few sprays at most, so using a heat lamp in a place like already rather hot San Diego didn’t really strike me until I realized Africa can get hotter, haha! Amazon links for me to abuse my gift cards on would be greatly appreciated.

I know I’m a bit of a noob when it comes down to Diabolicas, so I’m sorry you had to bear with me here. Your diabolicas are beautiful and I do hope to establish my ooth and get mine to look as good as yours! Cheers.

 

[hysteresis]

Ah, thank you a lot! I hope I didn’t come off as rude or condescending!

Nah all good.

I plan on using one of those big butterfly mesh cages to house these communally, and even though it’s a bit visually unappealing, they’re cheap, see through, and have cloth mesh around that they can use to their advantage. I asked about the substrate under the impression that it has grippy butterfly net mesh on the bottom. 

Careful with subadult and adult idolomantis in mesh cages. DON'T spook them because the hooks on their feet can snag in the net, and get damaged if they thrash hard enough, I've not had that happen but i've been told that, and having seen idolo spazouts, I believe it.

I don't recommend you let the idolo molt off the mesh alone. Older nymphs are heavy. People affix sticks, bark, burlap, or rubber shelf liner for better grip.

Is there any incubation enclosure that you suggest I can use(amazon link maybe hahaha). I think the ventilation will get rid of any fear of mold, so I do have a Kritter Keeper I can empty out and use to moisten substrate and then heat. 

I use a fish tank with substrate to release moisture for days. I have a full meshed lid for the top. I have a digital dual hygrometer / thermometer,

I have a temperature controller you plug the socket into. I use a 60W ceramic heat emitter to incubate. You can use heating wire for incubation.

Typical socket: https://www.amazon.com/Woods-150-Watt-Brooder-Porcelain-Socket/dp/B000KKLPKY/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=ceramic+socket&qid=1593753418&sr=8-1

Typical emitter: https://www.amazon.com/Simple-Deluxe-Infrared-Amphibian-Incubating/dp/B07KLZCDQH/ref=sr_1_5?dchild=1&keywords=ceramic+heat+emitter&qid=1593753290&sr=8-5

Also, I’m extremely unfamiliar with heat lamp brands and which lamp/bulb etc. would be effective for diabolicas. I have one of those temperature controllers I can hook one up to since I have a heat cable that I don’t really use anymore. My expertise in mantids mainly lie in those that can take my natural climate, plus a few sprays at most, so using a heat lamp in a place like already rather hot San Diego didn’t really strike me until I realized Africa can get hotter, haha! Amazon links for me to abuse my gift cards on would be greatly appreciated.

PIck 100w emitters for use w idolomantis or gongylus.