INBREEDING

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idolomantis said:
i,m sure it IS inbreeding. What else could it be? the local poltergeist???..........tell me what you think it is.
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So next time I fail with a species or 80% of my nymphs die between 1st instar and adulthood I'll blame inbreeding, not human error ;)

How much experience do you have with mantid husbandry ? Could it not be your fault that they are dying ?

Rob.

 
ANYONE STAND ME BY
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No. :lol:

First of all, I don't believe that any mantid was bred by a zoo for 60 years. Some phasmids indeed were, so maybe someone confounded it. Secondly, if we consider that that zoo indeed bred this species for a rather long time, inbreeding may not be the problem. It's rather a form of selection: they selected for their particular conditions. Every breeder selects, as he/she starts a culture, for his own conditions. The losses are high in the first generations (with the losses being as higher as the conditions differ from the optimum), then cease. You have adapted your stock to your conditions. Of course, every selection involves some loss of genetic diversity, but this does not automatically mean inbreeding! Now, when you give specimens from your stock away, they first have to adapt to the new conditions. This, again, means selection, so the new owner may suffer high losses first. Again, the rule is: the more the conditions differ from the optimum, the higher the losses. So, first of all, try to enhance your temperature, optimize the humidity and maybe the food, and then, if after a few generations it still goes wrong, then you may have suffered such a gene loss across the way that you can blame inbreeding to be responsible. Not now. And, by the way, by shouting to the community your problem is not solved any way!

 
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..... if this is al i can get i quit whit this toppic T~T

damn :,(

mods delete this topic cuz nobody,s listning

 
Rob Byatt said:
No, you are not listening ! Do you know anything about insect genetics or are you just assuming they share the same problems as with mammals ?
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i know MUCH about insects and i am listning

you dont know how it feelss.

finaly have mantids and they al die

they dont share that whit mammals

mods delete this topic fast

no1 is understanding me..

nvm i dont comment anymore becouse i only get some bad comments

you there how to make some1 angry

 
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i dont wanted help i just want to warn.

but that be accepted

INBREEDING IS A PROBLEM AND EVERY LIVING CREATURE ON THIS PLANET CAN BE WEAKEND BY IT!!!!!!

LAST WARN

a whatever. better expieriense by yourself, BUT DONT YOU AL DINT GET WARNED!!!!

mods delete this topic i just dont wanted to help so what happens to me dont happen to you guys.

now i feel dissapointed and unaccepted so i dont comment on anything anymore only on PM,s

 
The term inbreeding is often used as an excuse for poor or misunderstood husbandry, you are right that you might as well blame a polterqeist or entomophagus fungus or the Terminal Tower. It's not that the term has no meaning but it is not the problem. When few people could keep mantids for one or two generations an 'inbreeding' myth was generated as a possible excuse. In recent years as more hobbyists have become proficient at breeding mantids it has become obvious that the 'inbreeding myth' is just that.

 
Ah well Idolo, seems like the majority of us disagree. BUT, do not keep thinking about inbreeding as the problems for your mantid deaths. Raise the ooths you are ordering, and start over.

And also, mantids who have high hatch rates, for example in your post 150-120 mantids, it is VERY common for only 5 to survive to adulthood. That is why many hatch out in the first place.

Anyway, good luck with the ooths you are recieving!

 
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Well let me just avoid the inbreeding part so no one gets mad, but yeah... Ooths that are thick and bulky needs more protection because its in a dangerous environment, thus hatching more nymphs. 13 nymphs in a dangerous environment won't last that long. Though 100-200 nymphs that hatch out in a dangerous environment will have a better chance of 5 - 8 maybe even 1 surviving.

Causes to death can be anything from unknown bacteria/virus infection, predators, anything that can harm mantids that we don't know of.

Although mantids that come from an easy going environment, lays small, skinny, slender ooths. Not saying that they DON'T need protection because camouflage is on their side. For example gambian ooths hatch only about 6-12 somtimes even 1 or 2 mantids,but the majority of them survive.

Most mantids in the wild probably will mate with siblings anyway and it's probably going around for a couple hundred years.

 
Idolo, It seems the members here are more trying to help you understand that You have the ability to control the type of environment your mantids are exposed to. By changing the current set of variables which seem to be responsible for your mantids low mortality rates, you may be more at liberty to increase the survival rate of those little guys. It is very disappointing to lose large numbers of mantids for what seems to be, no apparent reason. My first Chinese left us with six ooths. Each ooth produced approximately 100-150 nymphs (maybe more, except the last one) and when it was all over I would only have maybe a third, if that, of mantids survive to maybe L-3. Of course they fell to bad molts and cannibalism and such. :angry: Then, the others which did not die as nymphs, even after making one change or so, still, a few would have bad molts and the others survived to adulthood which was maybe 20-25. I even had some really weird stuff happen as with one of my Orchids, which was in what I thought was perfect condition. -_- There was nothing out of the ordinary in play the night she began to shake violently and then suddenly just dropped dead in her tank. Imagine the horror. :unsure: I could not understand why they would all fall off like that. :blink: I began changing the humidity, temp, food etc as suggested in the forum threads and now I have far more mantids living well into adulthood and even dying of old age. ;) Again, for me, it took research and willingness to try new and different things. Heck, I even leave my Giant Asians out in the open hanging off my window vines! They even molted successfully, twice without putting them back into their tanks where I maintain specific temps and humidity for molting!!! :wacko: Also, I realized I am in this mantid thing for the long haul so I needed to learn as much as I could. I am finally at the point where I am trying my hand at my first breeding endeavour. :p So, don't give up just because you are at odds with the members. They're not beating up on you and in this hobby you Have to keep an open mind just as with anything else. When all else fails try something new!! Keep your chin up and a little advice can go a long, long way!!!! :p :lol:

 
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idolomantis said:
, only 5 make it to adulthood. 150-250 nymphs- 5 survive? no way that this happens to not inbreeded mantids
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mate it happens all the time, can be lack of diapause in some sp. insufficiant or tainted food stuffs, aresols and other chemicals, being left in direct sunlight, lethal genes, a cockup in general husbandry, ive had this a few times with ooths (always with the european's)

try again, it probably has very little to do with inbreeding, but admittedly it could be....what you cant do is blame it on that for sure...thats just silly, unless you can prove it of course, invertebrates are prone to fungal diseases and often it is to late by the time any obvious signs are recognised, pronbably just a royal ****up

we all do them, it happens all the time its nothing to be ashamed of, but admittedly you should encourage new blood in the zoo stocks, its just common practice :)

and dude dont take this as a personal vendetta we are advising, not just you, but other begginers that maybe reading the board, if your going to have a pissy when someone corrects you and/or critise's your point then id advise you never to be an artist/politician/florist/animal keeper/milkman/accountant....ect ect

critism is the easiest way to learn if you listen :)

Chin Up

 
Also, what will buying mantids from another source do? Unless their have been multiple importations chacnesare all mantids in the hobby are very closely related in any case.

 
pffffff never mind guysi know what it can do, saw whit my own eyes.

so dont comment anymore.

<_<

 
Do you understand we are trying to help?

Once you prove beyond a doubt it is inbreeding, you have no right to be so mad and upset.

Trust me, i know it sucks to lose mantids that you have grow to like. I killed my fair share. Just yesterday one of my subadult Gambians mismoulted...it suck, as it was my only male, but you dont here me saying "inbreeding". I know it was my fault-i forgot to mist them for a few days.

We're just trying to help is all im saying.

 
idolomantis said:
pffffff never mind guysi know what it can do, saw whit my own eyes.so dont comment anymore.

<_<
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Hun, if you don't listen to criticism once in a while and think you are always right when the majority tell you you're wrong, you aren't going to survive when you grow up.

It wasn't inbreeding. ;)

 
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Well, he is young and has no clue! We should be patient. :lol:

 
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