Is there any way to save this?

[MantidBro]

Tape and mantises don't mix well. I don't think eating would be your worst problem, mantises just get entangled in tape all the time, in the most impossible ways. And tape somehow loves mantises, it's impossible to get them back out without harming the mantis.

Tape can be bad for your mantid but it's useful if they've fallen during a molt or can't hang upside down due to a previous mismolt. Then it's kind of needed. I've been able to save a couple mantids using tape to hold them up by their shed legs once they'd fallen, or because they couldn't hang upside down due to a previous mismolt.

 

[Vespertino]

I'm currently nursing a mismolted L4 carolina. It seemed to have fallen in the middle of molting, the front arms are crooked. It can move and climb- awkwardly- but it can't grasp food to it's mouth and the hind legs seem paralyzed and malformed (the molt was stuck to one of the hind legs). It can hang upside down using it's middle and front legs. I have a good idea of what to do, but I'm having trouble getting the mantis to eat. It seems more interested in climbing onto my hand (squirrely, froggy little thing!) than taking the bugs I try to hold to it's mouth using a tweezer. She might take a few bites but seems to get bored and walks off. It will take a little bit of honey, but overall doesn't seem to have much appetite. I'm trying decapitated superworms and calciworms. Luckily the mantis doesn't seem lethargic, but I'm worried at how little I'm able to get it to eat. Also I'm not sure how much time I have to the next molt, at least two weeks to go, but unless I can get it to eat more it's going to be a long two weeks.

Any tips on feeding when they don't seem to wanna eat?

 

[LAME]

Give it a little time, it just may not be interested in meals at the moment. Is it incredibly skinny? (flat abdominal.) or is it in healthy shape?

Best advice I can offer is keep it hydrated.

 

[Vespertino]

Thanks for the advice. It's not incredibly skinny, but the abdomen is starting to flatten a little. Whenever I take the mantis out of the enclosure it seems active despite being crippled. It did eat a little today, but not nearly as much as the L4 siblings that polish off half a small mealworm. I gave it some water this morning, I'll give it a little more and see if it drinks.

 

[MantidBro]

Thanks for the advice. It's not incredibly skinny, but the abdomen is starting to flatten a little. Whenever I take the mantis out of the enclosure it seems active despite being crippled. It did eat a little today, but not nearly as much as the L4 siblings that polish off half a small mealworm. I gave it some water this morning, I'll give it a little more and see if it drinks.

Does the food fall from the mouth? you may have to hold the food still for the mantid. But if she is just hyper, soon she will calm down, she will get hungry eventually.

 

[Vespertino]

Yes, the food falls from it's mouth because her forearms are skewed from the bad molt. I've held the worms up to the mouth with tweezers so it can eat, holding the food up since she can't grasp it, and the longest she's eaten is about 3 minutes and then gets bored and wanders off (usually onto the hand that holds the tweezers). I've been persistent and will keep bringing the food to it's mouth and it might take a couple bites, then does the same wandering off thing... She really seems to like climbing onto my hand, dunno why. Maybe she thinks the tweezers offering food and the hand that holds it is "mommy".

 

[MantidBro]

Yes, the food falls from it's mouth because her forearms are skewed from the bad molt. I've held the worms up to the mouth with tweezers so it can eat, holding the food up since she can't grasp it, and the longest she's eaten is about 3 minutes and then gets bored and wanders off (usually onto the hand that holds the tweezers). I've been persistent and will keep bringing the food to it's mouth and it might take a couple bites, then does the same wandering off thing... She really seems to like climbing onto my hand, dunno why. Maybe she thinks the tweezers offering food and the hand that holds it is "mommy".

Oh okay, so you hold it still for her, thats good! I guess she just stops feeling hungry. Id say, hand feed her multiple times a day. if she only get a little each time, its better if she gets a little multiple times rather than a little just once. My advice would be, feed her just the guts. She can get a good grip on the guts even without help because theyre soft and sticky. Haha for sure youre her mommy

 

[LAME]

Yes, the food falls from it's mouth because her forearms are skewed from the bad molt. I've held the worms up to the mouth with tweezers so it can eat, holding the food up since she can't grasp it, and the longest she's eaten is about 3 minutes and then gets bored and wanders off (usually onto the hand that holds the tweezers). I've been persistent and will keep bringing the food to it's mouth and it might take a couple bites, then does the same wandering off thing... She really seems to like climbing onto my hand, dunno why. Maybe she thinks the tweezers offering food and the hand that holds it is "mommy".

There used to a thread where a member had used a thumbtack as a feeder device. It may still be on here somewhere. I'd consider using that method if you do get tired of holding it up for her.

 

[Vespertino]

Thanks for the advice! I'll give her another feeding in a bit, I know I have some thumbtacks around somewhere. I'm hoping she stays energetic until the 5th molt in a couple of weeks. I'm considering using the tape method to help her molt when it's time since she can't use her hind legs at all right now.

 

[birdiefu]

I have an S. viridis female (Mrs. Pickles) I just got 2 days ago who molted in transit (think is now L4, but not really sure - she is my first mantid other than a wild M. religiosa I gave some honey to). She also has both rear legs curved up/unusable and a bit of a thorax bend, but unlike your girly she seems to be able to use both raptorials. As she likes to use one to support herself, she will only hold hand-fed food with one at a time, however. She took beheaded mealworm toothpaste tubes well, and will be trying decapitated houseflies tomorrow.

I have spent the days since I got her going through about 20 pages of the health section here on mismolts on care and in anticipation of her next, and just wanted to pipe up about that thread with the thumbtack. Not sure if it was the same thread or two separate ones, but one method was a thumbtack with the bottom pressed in clay as a base (pretty sure silly putty is nontoxic), the other with a toothpick hotglued to a small plastic disc as a base.

There was another thread with a mantis with frozen joints on her raptorials that would take fruitflies and tilt her head back as she munched to keep it in place, lol.

Good luck with your carolina!

 

[Vespertino]

The soft guts + thumbtack seemed to help, hubs was cringing as I took an xacto blade to a worm and disemboweled it and piled that thumbtack high. I'm just wondering if her scampering around is normal or if she might be nervously seeking a safe place to retreat to whenever I remove her from the enclosure for feeding. She either makes a bee line for my hand or the closest object (usually the honey jar). She just wont stay still unless she's in her enclosure but I can't hand feed her in there. Has anyone noted any odd behaviors in mantids after a bad molt?

 

[Vespertino]

I have an S. viridis female (Mrs. Pickles) I just got 2 days ago who molted in transit (think is now L4, but not really sure - she is my first mantid other than a wild M. religiosa I gave some honey to). She also has both rear legs curved up/unusable and a bit of a thorax bend, but unlike your girly she seems to be able to use both raptorials. As she likes to use one to support herself, she will only hold hand-fed food with one at a time, however. She took beheaded mealworm toothpaste tubes well, and will be trying decapitated houseflies tomorrow.

I have spent the days since I got her going through about 20 pages of the health section here on mismolts on care and in anticipation of her next, and just wanted to pipe up about that thread with the thumbtack. Not sure if it was the same thread or two separate ones, but one method was a thumbtack with the bottom pressed in clay as a base (pretty sure silly putty is nontoxic), the other with a toothpick hotglued to a small plastic disc as a base.

There was another thread with a mantis with frozen joints on her raptorials that would take fruitflies and tilt her head back as she munched to keep it in place, lol.

Good luck with your carolina!

Sorry to hear about Mrs. Pickles molting in transit. Sounds like she's eating well. What instar is she at? I'm guessing we're both counting the days to the next molt, hoping it helps right our poor babies bodies into alignment once again. I like the term "mealworm toothpaste tubes", I chuckled when I read it- that's very much how I processed the worm for feeding. Sliced the head off, and squished the flesh and guts out from the bottom of the tail through the top where it's head used to be.

 

[birdiefu]

Sorry to hear about Mrs. Pickles molting in transit. Sounds like she's eating well. What instar is she at? I'm guessing we're both counting the days to the next molt, hoping it helps right our poor babies bodies into alignment once again. I like the term "mealworm toothpaste tubes", I chuckled when I read it- that's very much how I processed the worm for feeding. Sliced the head off, and squished the flesh and guts out from the bottom of the tail through the top where it's head used to be.

Hehe, yes it is interesting imagery! I am not exactly sure what instar Mrs. Pickles is - my googling has not led me to anywhere that gives a good guide to this, but I am only guessing at L4. I'm trying to keep her temp a little higher and keep her nice and fed to hopefully hasten the time to her next molt. I will be modifying her enclosure with easy-to-hang on items (hopefully!), and am ready to hold/tape her if necessary.

Some pics if it can help identify her age? Yes, she is still Mrs. Pickles even though not green I should probably start my own thread, don't mean to hijack or anything!

Eating honey from fingernail - bad focus but can get scale of size and sorta see hindlegs up:

She actually *can* hang and eat - using two middle legs and one raptorial, holding mealworm with the other:

But she seems more stable/happier munching in my hand or on something sturdy, can see how she props up with other raptorial:

ETA: Congrats on the thumbtack working! I have noticed Mrs. Pickles seems a little edgy/flightly for a female (from what I can tell and with little experience) - She gets really nervous with new environments and it took a *ton* of coaxing to get her on that towel to eat. She would *not* go on it before she had food, and even by coaxing with my other hand, she would only scamper/drag to grab onto another one of my fingers like it was a lifesaver, lol. First time to try feeding her there, she only took a few bites and then when I moved to stand up she freaked, dropped her worm, and ran off. She settled down in my hand, then I put her in her enclosure and she took the worm again there. Second feeding she was okay enough with the towel to finish her meal. I would have her finish her meal in my hand if necessary, but it does take a while...

 

[Vespertino]

Awwww poor Mrs.Pickles and those little legs. I'm not an expert but she's about the same size as my L4 carolinas, so L4 would be my guess as well. Thanks for sharing those pics, you're taking such good care of her, she was really chowing down on that worm! Sounds like it was a bit of an adventure getting her to eat. It sounds like they have some similar behavior with being squirmy and flighty out in the "open" for feeding time. She wasn't like this before the bad molt, so I'm almost wondering if they behave as if they have an injury and try to scurry away to hide in a "safe place" to ride things out until they recover. Today the thumbtack didn't work because I couldn't coax her towards it, she was just wholly uncooperative with staying put on the paper plate with the breakfast-bug-buffet-tumb-tack this morning. She clung to my hand this time, so I hand fed her the bug guts on the end of a bamboo skewer. Once again I'm really alarmed at how little she ate this morning, it didn't take much before she lost interest and started evading the bamboo stick. I'm going to stop by the store on the way home and get some baby food and see if she'd prefer it over bugs.

 

[Sticky]

Your mantis may decide to cut off the bad legs herself in the hopes they will regrow.

This is my little girl I had that did just that. It left her unable to hang so when she was close to molting I stuck her to some tape. That did not work out as she struggled and got more stuck. N trying to help her one leg ended up being broken.

Things may not end up that way for you.

 

[birdiefu]

Fingers crossed that the baby food is easier for your carolina to get down! Can she clean her raptorials? I'm thinking maybe even if she is losing interest, if you dab a little on her arms she will get more in as she cleans herself. Glad to hear she is spry and has energy though! As I never knew mine before this mismolt, I can't say if she was as flighty as now, but it would seem logical that they may change behavior to be more defensive/scaredy to avoid predators if they feel their body not working quite right.

You are doing a great job trying to help her out, I wish I was more experienced with these sweet little guys so I could give more advice!

 

[Sticky]

How is she today?

 

[Vespertino]

Hi guys!

Sticky: it looks like my little mantid did shorten her legs by chewing off some of the stuck exoskeleton that was adding an unnatural amount of length to one of the legs, even after I helped remove some of what was stuck. I'll be on the lookout as she gets closer to molting to see if she whittles them down any further.

She's doing much better now! But it's entirely because I gave up on the tumbtack and open-area feeding. I went with my hunch that she was trying to flee to a place she considered safe whenever I removed her from the enclosure to help with feeding. Instead of listening to her appetite, she was getting worked up trying to flee. Instead I let her perch on my hand (where she seemed to flee to 50% of the time) and just hand-fed her from there and she totally pigged out on whatever I squished on the end of the bamboo skewer and dangled in front of her nose. She was so much more cooperative with the last two feedings as long as I let her stay on my hand, and at the last feeding she was able to grab onto some worm exoskeleton (after she ate the guts I picked out for her) with one of her raptorial arms and bring it to her mouth. This is the first time she was able to do this since the bad molt last weekend.

So now I'm relieved and I know she'll make it to her next molt. I just need to learn how to read the signs so I know when to tape her hind legs since she can't hang by them. She can hang using her middle legs, but I don't know if that's ideal for molting.

Thanks for all the advice and support, I wouldn't have been prepared for this if it wasn't for the wisdom and advice in this thread on how to take care of my six-legged-friend.

 

[MantidBro]

Hi guys!

Sticky: it looks like my little mantid did shorten her legs by chewing off some of the stuck exoskeleton that was adding an unnatural amount of length to one of the legs, even after I helped remove some of what was stuck. I'll be on the lookout as she gets closer to molting to see if she whittles them down any further.

She's doing much better now! But it's entirely because I gave up on the tumbtack and open-area feeding. I went with my hunch that she was trying to flee to a place she considered safe whenever I removed her from the enclosure to help with feeding. Instead of listening to her appetite, she was getting worked up trying to flee. Instead I let her perch on my hand (where she seemed to flee to 50% of the time) and just hand-fed her from there and she totally pigged out on whatever I squished on the end of the bamboo skewer and dangled in front of her nose. She was so much more cooperative with the last two feedings as long as I let her stay on my hand, and at the last feeding she was able to grab onto some worm exoskeleton (after she ate the guts I picked out for her) with one of her raptorial arms and bring it to her mouth. This is the first time she was able to do this since the bad molt last weekend.

So now I'm relieved and I know she'll make it to her next molt. I just need to learn how to read the signs so I know when to tape her hind legs since she can't hang by them. She can hang using her middle legs, but I don't know if that's ideal for molting.

Thanks for all the advice and support, I wouldn't have been prepared for this if it wasn't for the wisdom and advice in this thread on how to take care of my six-legged-friend.

Thats great that shes eating now and can grab on with her claw herself!! congrats!! i made a video for mismolted mantids next molt, maybe itll help. Ive used this method myself and have saved their lives!

 

[Vespertino]

Thanks Mantidbro,

That gives more more clues on what to look for for the upcoming molt. Does the l4-l5 molt take 2 weeks or a bit longer?