Joe's Mantis Updates

[JoeCapricorn]

Thanks!

Meek had his first cricket today. I had to rip its back legs off because it was moving too fast and kept startling Meek. It seems Meek has developed a personality suited to his name, the shy one. He's just about finished with it, and is getting pretty chubby! The others are doing great as well! I'm currently thinking of names for the new mantises when they come too.

 

[JoeCapricorn]

My new baby Giant Asian mantises arrived today!

Their names are Baphomet, Nereid, Jasper and Dio. Dio will be renamed Dione if it turns out to be a female. I cannot tell their genders at this time. I think they are all L3, but I'm not fully sure. They all seem about the same size. Jasper is the latest gemstone mantis, after Emerald, Peridot, Jade, Topaz and Amber. Nereid is a reference to a type of nymph and also a moon of Neptune. I considered Naiad, but that term is also often used to describe dragonfly, damselfly and other aquatic insect nymphs. Baphomet is an androgynous figure of the occult, appearing as a humanoid goat with both male and female characteristics. Dio is a reference to Ronnie James Dio, Dione is a moon of Saturn and a Greek goddess.

Trying to count their abdominal segments is tricky. I don't see any that is noticably different from the others, they don't sit still very often and move quite quickly, the ones I did count were like... "One, two, three, four, five... six... and seven? eight? wut? Are those segments? lolwut? *counts again* One... two... three... I give up!"

On some, it looks like there are 8 segments, the last two being two very tiny segments after the 6th segment.

So I had a look at Kit, a very close look. Kit recently ate a large meal, so his abdomen is nice and fat, allowing the segments to be counted easier - Kit's also twice the size of the baby Giant Asians. The first segment narrows toward the thorax, widens toward the second segment, the fourth segment is the widest and the 5th segment starts to narrow away from the thorax. The sixth segment is about half the width of the 5th segment and there appears to be a seventh and eighth segment that are very thin in dimension. There also appears what looks like a small bulbous 9th segment at the very tip of his abdomen somewhat jutting between the two tails. Same deal with Fortune, although Fortune's abdomen seems to be slightly longer. The separation between the 7th and 8th segment is very slight and the separation between the 8th and "9th" segment is also very slight, but not less noticeable than the previous separation. Same deal with Meek and Angel as well. But, do mantises even have a 9th segment? Or is it my eyes that are deceiving me?

Is it possible that all mantises have the same amount of segments when very young and later molts the distinction between male and female becomes clearer? I know this is the case with grasshoppers, I don't know of any abdominal segment differences in those. I even had a look at OJ's remains (haven't buried him still, waiting for snow to melt!) and compared him with Nectarine. OJ has 8 segments when viewed from the top and viewed from the bottom. Nectarine also has 8 segments, but from the bottom appears to have only 7.

I'm confused about the abdominal segments. Is it really universal among all mantids?

 

[MantidLord]

My new baby Giant Asian mantises arrived today! Their names are Baphomet, Nereid, Jasper and Dio. Dio will be renamed Dione if it turns out to be a female. I cannot tell their genders at this time. I think they are all L3, but I'm not fully sure. They all seem about the same size. Jasper is the latest gemstone mantis, after Emerald, Peridot, Jade, Topaz and Amber. Nereid is a reference to a type of nymph and also a moon of Neptune. I considered Naiad, but that term is also often used to describe dragonfly, damselfly and other aquatic insect nymphs. Baphomet is an androgynous figure of the occult, appearing as a humanoid goat with both male and female characteristics. Dio is a reference to Ronnie James Dio, Dione is a moon of Saturn and a Greek goddess.

Trying to count their abdominal segments is tricky. I don't see any that is noticably different from the others, they don't sit still very often and move quite quickly, the ones I did count were like... "One, two, three, four, five... six... and seven? eight? wut? Are those segments? lolwut? *counts again* One... two... three... I give up!"

On some, it looks like there are 8 segments, the last two being two very tiny segments after the 6th segment.

So I had a look at Kit, a very close look. Kit recently ate a large meal, so his abdomen is nice and fat, allowing the segments to be counted easier - Kit's also twice the size of the baby Giant Asians. The first segment narrows toward the thorax, widens toward the second segment, the fourth segment is the widest and the 5th segment starts to narrow away from the thorax. The sixth segment is about half the width of the 5th segment and there appears to be a seventh and eighth segment that are very thin in dimension. There also appears what looks like a small bulbous 9th segment at the very tip of his abdomen somewhat jutting between the two tails. Same deal with Fortune, although Fortune's abdomen seems to be slightly longer. The separation between the 7th and 8th segment is very slight and the separation between the 8th and "9th" segment is also very slight, but not less noticeable than the previous separation. Same deal with Meek and Angel as well. But, do mantises even have a 9th segment? Or is it my eyes that are deceiving me?

Is it possible that all mantises have the same amount of segments when very young and later molts the distinction between male and female becomes clearer? I know this is the case with grasshoppers, I don't know of any abdominal segment differences in those. I even had a look at OJ's remains (haven't buried him still, waiting for snow to melt!) and compared him with Nectarine. OJ has 8 segments when viewed from the top and viewed from the bottom. Nectarine also has 8 segments, but from the bottom appears to have only 7.

I'm confused about the abdominal segments. Is it really universal among all mantids?

Yes, if memory serves. All nymphs have the eight or nine segments when first born. Then as they mature, the last two segments fuse together if it is a female. Making it easy to sex them. So sexing them at this point is useless for two reasons 1) it's extremely hard and 2) it's impossible because they all have the same segments. Congrats on getting them by the way.

 

[JoeCapricorn]

Yes, if memory serves. All nymphs have the eight or nine segments when first born. Then as they mature, the last two segments fuse together if it is a female. Making it easy to sex them. So sexing them at this point is useless for two reasons 1) it's extremely hard and 2) it's impossible because they all have the same segments. Congrats on getting them by the way.

So it may even be possible that one or more of my African mantises are female after all? They are L5 right now...

When it comes down to it, gender doesn't really matter. I've had a huge amount of fun with my African mantises and that fun just doubled with Dio, Baphomet, Nereid and Jasper! It's been so fun watching Kit, Meek, Fortune and Angel grow up. I have come to identify with each of their personalities and what to expect when I open their containers up - Kit and Angel stay put, Meek likes to look at me and reach for my finger, Fortune doesn't like to go back in to the container and prefers to bolt right for my hand...

The Giant Asians will be just as fun, I know it!

 

[MantidLord]

So it may even be possible that one or more of my African mantises are female after all? They are L5 right now... When it comes down to it, gender doesn't really matter. I've had a huge amount of fun with my African mantises and that fun just doubled with Dio, Baphomet, Nereid and Jasper! It's been so fun watching Kit, Meek, Fortune and Angel grow up. I have come to identify with each of their personalities and what to expect when I open their containers up - Kit and Angel stay put, Meek likes to look at me and reach for my finger, Fortune doesn't like to go back in to the container and prefers to bolt right for my hand...

The Giant Asians will be just as fun, I know it!

Well I don't know about L5. That's pretty old. It may differ upon mantis, but my experience is that you should be able to sex at L4 onwards. Good luck nonetheless, and glad you're having fun.

 

[JoeCapricorn]

Jasper is the first of the Giant Asians to molt. I think he (or maybe she) molted to L4, if they are all indeed L3. Gosh, Giant Asians are tiny at this stage!

The other three look smaller compared to Jasper now, the size difference is clearer. Dio is the only one that seems to be a bit larger, but it's extremely subtle and s/he is still smaller than Jasper.

Jasper is probably 3/4ths the length and 1/4th the mass of the L5 African mantises.

Do Giant Asians go through more molts? How many molts do they have before adulthood?

 

[JoeCapricorn]

Angel once again beat the others to the punch and has molted perfectly to L6! Angel had some bent antennae when he molted to L5, but everything is perfect! He's a flawless little gem!

Although, I can't really call him little anymore. Fruit flies are devoured in two bites. Angel can catch one, and immediately catch another and by the time I have picked out a third both would be eaten. He has no problem catching the tiny flies (D. melanogaster)

So, to feed him fruit flies I just constantly drop one in front and he snatches, om nom and that's it.

Looks like I'll be going out for some crickets and D. hydei tomorrow! It's kind of good to know that the African mantises can still have fruit flies at L6, since I want to vary their diet. Now, they are more like fruit snacks!

It is also possible that Angel might be female after all. This still is an uncertainty, since even though I have good eye sight I can't quite figure out the segments (and Angel is distracted by my typing cursor even though s/he is a foot away *giggle*)

From the top side, Angel looks like he has 7 clearly differentiated segments. From the bottom, looks like only 6. The lines between the last three segments (which I can actually differentiate better in Fortune, Meek and Kit in L5) seem to be blurred.

Is it possible that they are fusing and Angel is pulling a gender swap on me? By L7 will he be a she?

 

[Katnapper]

From the top side, Angel looks like he has 7 clearly differentiated segments. From the bottom, looks like only 6. The lines between the last three segments (which I can actually differentiate better in Fortune, Meek and Kit in L5) seem to be blurred. Is it possible that they are fusing and Angel is pulling a gender swap on me? By L7 will he be a she?

Joe, count the segments from the bottom; the top will do you no good. At younger instars both sexes look like they have more segments than they will eventually end up with. As the females get nearer to molting to adult, the third to last segment will "overtake" the last two small ones, becoming one large end segment. In males the segments will be of a more even proportion and 7 or 8 at count. Females end up with 5 or 6.

 

[JoeCapricorn]

Joe, count the segments from the bottom; the top will do you no good. At younger instars both sexes look like they have more segments than they will eventually end up with. As the females get nearer to molting to adult, the third to last segment will "overtake" the last two small ones, becoming one large end segment. In males the segments will be of a more even proportion and 7 or 8 at count. Females end up with 5 or 6.

So at this point the last two segments will either telescope outward, or be engulfed by the sixth segment? I can clearly see the boundaries of the 7th and 8th segments from the top and side, but from the bottom there is no distinguishing boundary between these segments, so it looks like there is a single sixth segment. I wish I could reliably photograph this but even my macro on my cellphone isn't good enough to resolve the tiny details.

Angel is L6. If Angel is a male, he would be Adult at L8? and if Angel is a female, she would be adult at L9?

I guess, in the end, I'll just have to wait and see ^_^

 

[Katnapper]

So at this point the last two segments will either telescope outward, or be engulfed by the sixth segment? I can clearly see the boundaries of the 7th and 8th segments from the top and side, but from the bottom there is no distinguishing boundary between these segments, so it looks like there is a single sixth segment. I wish I could reliably photograph this but even my macro on my cellphone isn't good enough to resolve the tiny details. Angel is L6. If Angel is a male, he would be Adult at L8? and if Angel is a female, she would be adult at L9?

I guess, in the end, I'll just have to wait and see ^_^

She sounds female, but of course a pic would greatly help, lol. You're right... you'll likely just have to wait and see. I wouldn't worry about it too much, as she/he is what it is... and you'll eventually find out for sure.

 

[JoeCapricorn]

She sounds female, but of course a pic would greatly help, lol. You're right... you'll likely just have to wait and see. I wouldn't worry about it too much, as she/he is what it is... and you'll eventually find out for sure.

And now matter if he is a he or a she I still love him or her no matter what since they are all so adorable!

Nereid molted perfectly to L4 today! It seems Dio and Baphomet are still L3. Jasper is also L4.

Edit: A day later, Dio joins the party! Baphomet... what are you waiting for? Molt! *giggles*

 

[JoeCapricorn]

Baphomet still hasn't molted to L4.... lazy little bug... The other Giant Asians are doing fine ^_^

Fortune molted two days ago to L6. I expected Kit to be the one to molt next, but SURPRISE! Meek has beaten Kit to L6. He is currently in the process of molting. Almost done though! I'm keeping a close eye on him for a bit before I leave for my first day of school of the Spring semester.

It seems all is going well. I've really wondered one thing though... sometimes when in the African mantises they eat a lot that their abdomens bulge, and such in the case of right now while Meek is molting, between the segments there is a black line with a red dot in the middle. What exactly is that?

Just judging on how big Meek looks compared to Angel and Fortune (the other Sixers)... Meek is bigger. By far. Maybe this might finally be the sign that Meek is a she?

 

[ZoeRipper]

Baphomet still hasn't molted to L4.... lazy little bug... The other Giant Asians are doing fine ^_^ Fortune molted two days ago to L6. I expected Kit to be the one to molt next, but SURPRISE! Meek has beaten Kit to L6. He is currently in the process of molting. Almost done though! I'm keeping a close eye on him for a bit before I leave for my first day of school of the Spring semester.

It seems all is going well. I've really wondered one thing though... sometimes when in the African mantises they eat a lot that their abdomens bulge, and such in the case of right now while Meek is molting, between the segments there is a black line with a red dot in the middle. What exactly is that?

Just judging on how big Meek looks compared to Angel and Fortune (the other Sixers)... Meek is bigger. By far. Maybe this might finally be the sign that Meek is a she?

I retract my statement, as I thought it was something completely different. My mistake.

 

[idolomantis]

" between the segments there is a black line with a red dot in the middle. What exactly is that? "

You mean like this:

If so that's normal.

 

[JoeCapricorn]

" between the segments there is a black line with a red dot in the middle. What exactly is that? "You mean like this:

*PICTURE*

If so that's normal.

Yup. Exactly like that. I was just wondering because at first it didn't have the red dot and I wasn't sure if it was something more unusual. This is a relief ^_^

Kit molted successfully yesterday as well. All of my African mantises are L6. Baphomet finally molted to L4, all of my Giant Asians are L4. Squeeee! ^_^

 

[JoeCapricorn]

Jasper molted to L5 a few days ago. However, seems kinda small for an L5, smaller than what my African mantises were at L5, and Giant Asians are supposed to be bigger... hmmm... so if I get like, "too many Ls" later on (like L11, or L93), perhaps they might all be L3 except for Jasper who is L4? Although I'm pretty sure they were L3 when they arrived, and subsequently molted to L4 starting with Jasper.

Now, Angel molted to L7. He is stunningly beautiful! If he is a he, does this mean he is now sub-adult? Or is that L8? From the top I can clearly distinguish 8 segments and from the bottom I can clearly distinguish 7 segments, but at some angles only 6 segments. I think more than likely he is a he, but I'm also stunningly bad at telling their gender even at this stage. I do see small cute wing buds, but they are quite small, but wingbuds appear on all the other African mantises too.

----

Let's see, Angel molted to L7 yesterday February 1. For L6, Angel was first, then followed by Fortune 5 days later and Meek later that same day, and Kit a day later.

Jasper molted to L5 3 days ago, for L4 Jasper was first, then followed by Nereid 5 days later, Dio 6 days later and Baphomet 10 days later. Let's see how this sequence plays out.

----

I'm going to chart the general molting progress of all of my nymphs to this point. First, the African mantises:

Upon arrival, Kit, Angel and Fortune were L2, Meek was L1. Fortune molted to L2 in transit, he was the only one with exoskeleton remnant. All 4 arrived around 12:00 PM on Wednesday, November 4, 2009.

Meek molted a day later on November 5, catching up to L2.

On November 19 and possibly 18, Kit, Angel and Fortune molted to L3 all very close to one another. November 22 Meek molts to L3 3 days later (although could've happened night of November 21)

So for Kit, Angel and Fortune the time between L2 and L3 was generally 15 days and for Meek the time was 17 days.

Fortune molted to L4 December 10, 21 days after L3. Angel molted December 11 to L4, 22 days after L3, Kit molted December 12, 23 days after L3. Meek molted Dec. 15, 23 days after L3.

Angel molted to L5 Dec. 31 - 21 days after L4. I did not mark the exact date that Kit and Fortune molted but it was after January 3rd, probably January 5. This would be about 24 and 25 days after L4 for each. Meek probably molted either January 8 or 9, since when he molted to L5 I really felt the urgency to get new containers for my buddies. This would be 24 or 25 days after L4.

This is where it starts to get a little strange. Angel molts to L6 on January 19. This is 19 or 20 (if Angel molted the night of December 30) days after L5. Fortune molted to L6 January 23, between 18 and 19 days after L5. Meek molted to L6 on January 25, which is either 16 or 17 days after L5. Kit molted January 25 as well, in the evening, probably 20 days after L5.

So now, Angel molted to L7 on February 1, which is only 13 days after L6... this is strange. It seems they started off growing slowly, but now are maturing much faster... My room has been kept a bit warmer since I got back, and there has been a definite change in diet - first small crickets, later some house flies sent with the Giant Asians, along with D. melanogaster and hydei. All the African mantises are now at the point of eating crickets on a regular basis, although I still give them the fruit flies - even if the melanogaster are bite sized. I haven't tried giving melanogasters to Angel yet, but he is able to catch D. hydei, and the others can catch both Hydei and melanogaster, although they are more supplementary rather than staple at this point (if I run out of crickets, I will sit with them and feed them melanogasters one by one until their abdomens show some noticeable bulge... this can mean up to about 25 of the melanogasters per mantis and about 12 of the Hydei and 2 of the smallest crickets (which often times end up molting as well and get bigger)

----

The Giant Asians arrived Jan 13 all as L3. If they weren't L3 at the time, I might make a retroactive note of this, but for now I'm assuming all of them were L3. 2 days after arrival Jasper molts to L4. Nereid molted Jan 20 to L4, 7 days after arrival and Dio molted January 21, 8 days after arrival. Baphomet molted January 26, 13 days after arrival.

Jasper molted to L5 on January 31, 16 days after L4. Extrapolating this, I predict that Nereid will molt on Feb 5, Dio on Feb 6 and Baphomet on Feb 11. Could be shorter since I have a surplus of fruit flies that I've been feeding to the Giant Asians.

My prediction for Nereid did not come true - but instead was short by two days. Nereid molted successfully to L5 today on February 7. This was nearly a mismolt, he probably fell and was on the bottom of his enclosure looking all twisted - I slowly flipped the vial upside down, sprayed some moisture and kept an eye on him - he molted quickly (and I got some cool pictures of him doing so) - the only thing that was affected was his antennae, which are all wonky but still intact. Dio will probably molt tomorrow. I'll keep a close eye on him to make sure he molts without a hitch. Edit: Dio molted perfectly February 8th to L5.

Angel spends time out of his enclosure a lot, always sits on the center speaker and munches on crickets or fruit flies. I'll keep him nearby when feeding the other mantises, since sometimes a fruit fly will escape and Angel usually picks them off.

Edit: Fortune molted to L7 late Feb 10/early Feb 11 (Still in the process at this point) - raises a concern... Molting from L6 to L7 has Fortune stretching from the top of his container to the very bottom. I should find taller containers before Angel molts to L8 - I planned to anyway. It is 19 days after Fortune molted to L6.

Edit: Meek molted to L7 early Feb 11, perfect molt. Fortune's turned out to be a perfect molt. It is 17 days after Meek's molt to L6.

 

[JoeCapricorn]

Okay, new post...

Kit molted to L7 early 2/12, perfect molt. Kit seems to have some abdominal deformities (I'll take pics tomorrow), but I doubt they are any cause for concern. Kit is a healthy mantis ^_^

Kit might be a female. From the top the last two segments are very short, from the bottom there is no distinguishable border between any segments after the 6th, and from the side it seems the border between the 6th segment and the other two segments angles toward the tip - with Angel, Fortune and Meek, this border wraps around and the 7th and 8th segments are clearly distinguishable. So, those three are male. Kit? Not sure, but nothing to concern myself over.

I got Angel a new container. It's a 2 pound deli container that is about 8 inches high. This will do for when Angel molts to L8, since with his old container he would not have enough room. Based on various stuff (could I be more vague?), L8 would likely be his sub-adult stage, and L9 is imago.

As for Nectarine, she has shown signs of significant aging and slowing down as of Monday. I thought she would be gone by Wednesday but has hung on. I must say, I never saw a grasshopper age as gracefully as Nectarine, as despite everything she still is herself. She still slowly wiggles her antennae, and still likes to munch on tango. I haven't had her on my keyboard as much, since I spray her food heavily to get her to eat and provide her with water - this water might drip into the keyboard and break it. Also my room is dry, her cage is humid.

Also, somewhat unrelated, I am elated to find that the supposed "dead" D. hydei fruit fly culture I got last week now has maggots in it, and two three flies roaming around. I got a new one as well, and intended on seeding the old one with these new flies but forgot, but it seems I might not have to... My younger bunch depend on these fellas for food and my older bunch eats them as snacks for supplementary nutrition in case crickets don't provide everything - basically I feed my younger bunch what they need, then the rest of the fruit flies I extracted from the culture I feed to the older bunch.

 

[Katnapper]

Also, somewhat unrelated, I am elated to find that the supposed "dead" D. hydei fruit fly culture I got last week now has maggots in it, and two three flies roaming around. I got a new one as well, and intended on seeding the old one with these new flies but forgot, but it seems I might not have to... My younger bunch depend on these fellas for food and my older bunch eats them as snacks for supplementary nutrition in case crickets don't provide everything - basically I feed my younger bunch what they need, then the rest of the fruit flies I extracted from the culture I feed to the older bunch.

If you want to keep your ff cultures going, without having to buy new ones each time (ends up being very expensive, and unpredictable at what you'll get), you'll need to make another new culture or two and seed it with some of the existing flies. I suggest making two (one as a backup); or if you don't have enough flies (around 50-100), then at least make one with what you do have.

Reseach the forum on tips for making new cultures (there are oodles of threads about it). And you can find an especially long and helpful thread on how to make your own ff culture media that should help immensely too. Just do a search or browse the Feeding section. Good luck!

PS.... Don't put off making a new culture; do it now. The turnaround time to produce new flies basically takes about 2 weeks for mels and 3 for D. hydei. When making and using ff's as a food source, planning ahead and making the new ones in advance of when you'll need them is essential.

 

[JoeCapricorn]

Quick update: Baphomet molted today, February 15, to L5.

 

[JoeCapricorn]

Some happy news, some sad news.

First, the happy news... Angel has molted successfully to L8! He is hanging out right now and I got some good pictures of him in this pose. I'm glad I decided to find a deli container when I did, I knew his molt would be soon. It has been about 16 days after his last molt. He is definitely the fastest growing of the bunch. The next in line to molt is Jasper, where upon molting Jasper will get an upgraded container - Angel's old Ziploc container. I will now begin my quest for a suitable container for adult housing to house Angel in, as well as Fortune, Meek and Kit before their next molting.

Now, the sad news. Images speak louder than words: