Just A Little Challange to the thinking of inbreeding as bad...

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lower order vertebrates (amphibians/fish) are far les succeptible to inbreeding than mammals or birds, and insects even less succeptible

Heres the main point Id like to make. As a RESPONSIBLE BREEDER you should try your best to not inbreed

 
lower order vertebrates (amphibians/fish) are far les succeptible to inbreeding than mammals or birds, and insects even less succeptible

Heres the main point Id like to make. As a RESPONSIBLE BREEDER you should try your best to not inbreed
I agree

Unless we get a full understanding of how inbreeding harms something and it's effects, which I'm not sure we do yet seeing as we don't fully understand mantis genes yet I don't think we should mess with this stuff and we should try to avoid inbreeding if possible

I notice inbred creos r less likely to wanna mate and r more aggressive towards each other

I saw on tv inbreeding tigers makes them more aggressive

Maybe a similar thing happens here but I'm not sure

 
I really wouldn't compare mantids and mammals on this topic. I am willing to bet that the majority of our captive, non US mantids are already quite inbred.

 
I don't actually see how most wild mantids are not imbred. They don't disperse much, some studies put it at only 20 meters over a lifetime.

 
If insects didn't inbreed they wouldn't have been here 10's of millions of years longer than us, do the math, they out live all species on the planet, It's not that hard to figure out only advanced life forms should not inbreed? It plagues are larger brain and soft vulnerable skin more than what they have, It's like apples and oranges? Ever here of give and take, we took...

 
yes, it does. it certainly does. BUT you'll notice that nature has evolved built in mechanisms to prevent inbreeding in insects.

Lets start with fruit flies, shall we? In the early production stages of a fruit fly culture, the vast majority of the flies are a single ***, and that doesnt reverse till the end of the culture. Its one reason why its always a good idea to start cultures with flies from a young and an old culture, to get a even mix of sexes

In mantids, the males have evolved to mature much faster than females, and since the males are adept fliers, they disperse their hatch zone long before the female has matured, who remains relatively sedentary

If inbreeding wasnt a big deal, there wouldnt be evolutionary adaptations to prevent it...EVEN IN PLANTS, like someone already brought up, there are mechanisms to prevent "selfing" Where you see selfing become more common are in cultivars specifically selected for this trait

 
Wanna see something crazy about inbreds? I think it is one of the more disturbing episodes of the X-files. It is titled "Home". Very creepy.

 
We know there are known issues with line breeding certain mantids, the problem is without a real scientific study we dont know if its due to the line breeding or husbandry and this weve seen in the dart frog hobby as well. Id be more than happy to start holding back a few Hymenopus to start studying this. A few simple set husbandy/ feeding practices and a controled breeding setup with tracked individuals will tell us something.

As far as FF go, you need to understand that FF are already so inbred to the point they are deformed, Why do you think there are so many strains of them, wingless, golden wingless, turkish gliders, curly wings, and such you dont think they are all naturally occuring do you?

They also do not start producing runts do to breeding, its lack of food, they will keep breeding even without food in the bottom of the culture, the FF do not eat the media in the bottom of the cups for the most part, thats for the larva the FF go after the yeast in it and you will see if you sprinkle a bit of yeast in there a couple weeks into production they will flurish longer. Its also a genetic issue with how most seed their cultures, you should be seeding each culture from 3 seperate cultures, one from fresh producers, one from mid stage and then from the late stage in the culture, this creates a a stronger FF population in your culture.

 
Well that clears up the(my) mystery of why they get smaller as the cuture ages, thanks for your input on that.

 
For some really good info on fruit flies and their specifics, go to www.carolina.com, order a small vial of fruit flies, expensive I know, but they will send a booklet with them and there is a lot you can learn from the book, I have a couple, so if anyone wants one, place a note on your orders and if available I will send it out. Remember inbreeding causes problems, not just in insects but all life as well, some cause a destroying trait, others for some reason do not.

 
well think of the silkworm moth, bombyx mori

the WHOLE SPECIES is captive now and frequently inbred and they still haven't gone extinct

they r extinct in the wild but very common in captivity

 
Yep. Inbreeding stops being directly dangerous after the lethal alleles leave after a few generations. However, they will be more susceptible to disease and parasites with each loss of genetic variation. There is no away around this side effect of inbreeding. With proper care, it can be managed, but it's going to get harder and never eliminated.

 

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