Killing them to pin them.

[psyconiko]

Hello everyone

I just want to know what you guys think about killing mantises in the purpose to sell them for pinning?

Someone from Malaysia is selling massive amount of dead/dried mantises.I usually do not pay much attention as I can understand some collector want to ornate their walls with dead animals.

But this person is selling really lots of them,many different species, you can see like 30 adult female truncatas,and this is just for one species.

No need to say it breaks my heart and make me very angry.Not because they are dead but because they are obviously taken from the wild as there is no decent mantis breeder in Malaysia.

So now I know why we cannot get all those Malaysian species we all want.Adults are killed and collected by people who just do not care about wildlife...

I am sure some of you have already seen that ad on Facebook.I can give you the link if you wish.

Anyway it is Malaysia,I do not know how people are out there.So stupid they cannot breed mantises?So poor they need to collect all the ones they can find?Probably both.Sorry,I shut up before I get really mean.

So what do you think?

 

[ScienceGirl]

Many insects get pinned for scientific purposes. Insects are sold encased in glass or pinned in cases. There are really several sides to this, and I can see how each side would believe they were right. *Sigh.* I guess that I can say that as long as a substantial population is left, then I'm not going to start yelling at people... :mellow:

But... pictures are a lovely way to capture a mantis, and the mantis gets to live! The only difference is that the mantis isn't touchable and isn't actually there.

 

[ismart]

I hate to say this but they probably make more money from selling dried specimens then living ones. Life is tough. I suppose in time if these species are over collected. There will hopefully be laws put in place so that some species are not totally lost? Also we just don't really know how many are being taken from the wild and it's overall effect on the population? On the bright side. There is at least one collecter that lets the specimens lay ooths before they are pinned. I don't want to say names, but at least it's not a total loss.

 

[MandellaMandy123]

I understand why pinning may be necessary for scientific purposes, but I really don't see that it's right to sell pinned mantises for any other reason. The amount of excessive insect pinning is probably the reason why I won't ever want to be an entomologist. When I was like five or so, I visited a local entomologist who has huge collections of the same species of bee with a tag by each one with the location that it was captured. Why wouldn't a picture have sufficed?

I don't even pin my mantids after they die. I agree that it's really sad when live mantises are killed to be pinned.

~Wolfie

 

[scytheclaw]

i agree fully!

happens alot with other bugs as well when they use 'kill boxes' for butterflies etc,makes me angry when they say 'oh this is a rare species' i think to myself well they are even rarer now

 

[ScienceGirl]

makes me angry when they say 'oh this is a rare species' i think to myself well they are even rarer now

Exactly. If it is a rare species, and you know about it, shouldn't you be working to preserve it?

 

[dylan11]

Exactly. If it is a rare species, and you know about it, shouldn't you be working to preserve it?

What is the point in preserving something dead that you could help to live? That makes no sense to me. Surely the more rare something is the more efforts need to be made to keep live specimens and put them into a breeding programme or preserve them in their environment?

Buying mantids online from Malaysia is not the same as a university/college/scientist collecting them from the wild. Their intentions are completely different.

I think the real problem here is often the one we ignore in the west of the world. It is poverty VS preserving the natural environment. Its the usually story: poor person collects animal, sells to middle class person and middle class person sales for more money using their contacts/business. The same thing has been happening with tigers, elephants, bears etc for years. The responsibility lies with those who purchase them. If we believe in preserving the natural world (and if you love mantids, I might add) we should take responsibility and only buy from sources we know we can trust. I pin mantids, but only my own after they have died. I cannot trust other sources.

dylan11

 

[ScienceGirl]

I think the real problem here is often the one we ignore in the west of the world. It is poverty VS preserving the natural environment. Its the usually story: poor person collects animal, sells to middle class person and middle class person sales for more money using their contacts/business. The same thing has been happening with tigers, elephants, bears etc for years. The responsibility lies with those who purchase them. If we believe in preserving the natural world (and if you love mantids, I might add) we should take responsibility and only buy from sources we know we can trust. I pin mantids, but only my own after they have died. I cannot trust other sources.

Seems like the general consensus is that it's alright (for scientific purposes?) to pin non-endangered species that have been captive bred.

 

[Sticky]

The wild silkmoths I have pinned are ones I have raised myself. The people there can be taught to do that too. Its being done with seahorses .

People in these places can be taught that live animals are more valuable than dead. Look at what is happening with gorillas and other endangered species. People pay money to see whales and seals and puffins bigtime here in Maine.

 

[Rick]

Many animals are collected or killed for no good reason. Elephants and rhinos are killed for their tusks, sharks are killed for their fins, etc.

 

[agent A]

Many animals are collected or killed for no good reason. Elephants and rhinos are killed for their tusks, sharks are killed for their fins, etc.

u can just tranquilize elephants and rhinos and cut the tusks/horns offthey grow back

 

[happy1892]

u can just tranquilize elephants and rhinos and cut the tusks/horns off

they grow back

They probably dont care lol Very bad that animals are going extinct. I just looked at black rhinos a few months ago, so sad!

 

[hibiscusmile]

Cutting tusks and such hurts an animal in the same way cutting a tail off a horse does, it is there for a reason, I dont'' like either.

 

[Rick]

Cutting tusks and such hurts an animal in the same way cutting a tail off a horse does, it is there for a reason, I dont'' like either.

Not as much as killing them does. There are some groups that cut the tusks off of elephants to prevent the poachers from killing them. But I agree with Alex, if the poachers were smart they would sedate the animals and cut the tusks only to come back later and cut them again. Sort of like a renewable resource. But what needs to happen is to educate the people who think ivory has medicinal properties.

 

[Jinx]

I'm against the killing of any animal in general. I can understand for scientific reasons sometimes, but even that has it's limits for me. I think this is more of a morality view, but I can't see how anybody thinks it's okay to mass kill a species for profit. Normally I'm pretty good at staying in the middle and seeing two sides of an issue, but this just seems like pure greed.

As for pinning it's self I've given this a great deal of thought recently. Personally I have never fared well with the death of a pet. With the life span of a mantis, the way I handle this will obviously have to change. I think I will start pinning them for my own personal "collection". Obviously I can't culture every species all at the same time, and so far my family and friends have been very curious about the hobby. I think in addition to videos and pictures, I may also preserve them for learning purposes. I think learning to preserve and pin them will also help me cope with their deaths a bit as well.

 

[Rick]

I'm against the killing of any animal in general. I can understand for scientific reasons sometimes, but even that has it's limits for me. I think this is more of a morality view, but I can't see how anybody thinks it's okay to mass kill a species for profit. Normally I'm pretty good at staying in the middle and seeing two sides of an issue, but this just seems like pure greed.

As for pinning it's self I've given this a great deal of thought recently. Personally I have never fared well with the death of a pet. With the life span of a mantis, the way I handle this will obviously have to change. I think I will start pinning them for my own personal "collection". Obviously I can't culture every species all at the same time, and so far my family and friends have been very curious about the hobby. I think in addition to videos and pictures, I may also preserve them for learning purposes. I think learning to preserve and pin them will also help me cope with their deaths a bit as well.

Some good can come of pinned or preserved mantids. I use both for Bugfest which is an educational event.

 

[agent A]

u know, they display deceased humans for certain events (ever been to bodies revealed?) but they certainly dont just kill humans for that, why kill an animal?

what angers me more is people will sell dead butterflies in perfect condition and say they lived out their lives and died of old age

do u know wat aging does to a butterfly?

 

[Scruffy Aphid Herder]

Not that I would but, there's a good but not so legal way of keeping many mantis species alive. Start releasing large numbers of species in your yard or local park/forest(depending on where you live). That way in a few years they will be common mantids in your area or state

Only mantis species that I don't see surviving is H. coronatus cause orchids don't grow wild in the states, but any green leafed or dead leafed looking mantis would do fine I'm sure :shifty:

Here in florida, it would be extremely easy for mantis species to thrive here. We already have python and iguana problems <_<