Mantis diarrhea

[Arachnids]

Is your mantis okay now?

 

[Rick]

The only ones that seem to still be affected are the H. Grandis'.

 

[DMJ]

I've had a female P.Wahlbergii barf a dark brown liquid and at the time she was getting fed store bought crickets and WC house flies. The day after she barfed she ended up dying.

 

[user 390]

From Christian: It seems to me to be the "vomiting desease" that appeared a while ago. It originates mostly from the crickets, seems to be a mass desease in cricket stocks that spreads to the mantids. A bad thing, even flies sucking on dead infected crickets may get it, so a mantid eating such a fly gets it, too. It seems to be a protozoan, some kind of gregarine sporozyte called Nosema.

Infected mantids regurgitate a reddish fluid and smear it on all the plants and walls of the jar. Infected mantids may be cured sometimes by higher temperatures and drier conditions

The day before yesterday my ghost had excreted the reddish fluid described above, several small drops, i have only ever fed him on fruit flies. This morning he was on the bottom of his container, standing and alert, but this was unusual as he doesnt normally move away from the top. It's a week since his last moult (think he's L3 or L4, not sure, its my first ghost and only the third mantis i've kept, on his last moult he developed the leafy shield protrusions on his shoulders), he isnt interested in eating today but will brush off any flies that climb on him (i put a few in this morning but have since removed them after it was clear he wasnt going to eat). I am concerned about the excretion of the red fluid and will attempt to increase the temp as per Christians suggestion - my main worry tho is that his abdomen is very thin despite a few days of good feeding prior to the red fluid excretion. The lack of interest in food would suggest he is preparing to moult (or is just ill?), but his thin condition makes me think he wont make it through the moult. Any reassurance would be very appreciated! (sorry about the essay, am worried and just wanted to be clear).

 

[Rick]

I foudn out what caused the problem at least for me. I fed my crickets a lot of leafy greans. This was good for my herps but seems it can cause some mantids to vomit/excrete. I had a batch of crickets for my herps and a batch for my mantids. The ones for the mantids were fed fish food flakes, cat food etc etc. The problem in the mantids went away. I tested this theory a few times and the problem went away.

 

[nympho]

Ive noticed that mantids can produce BOTH dry frass AND squirt out alot of liquid directly after eating. I noticed this several times when my idolomantis eat a large number of bluebottle flies - seems they want get rid of excess liquid that they don't need. There abdomens get really fat, then deflate rapidly on getting rid of this liquid - all over the glass! This surprised me as I thought they would want to conserve moisture. This has probably got nothing to do with diarea problems but interesting anyway.

 

[Mike]

i have had this happen to my old P.Wahlbergii before. I bought it and it didnt eat at all and the whole time it puked out this brown wet stuff and it smelt too.. and it would only drink water for about a week then it finally died..

I also had another problem with mantids before is that their faces start turning black like rotting alive and it only takes a few days to kill the mantis and the mantis smeeeellls like its been dead for a long time right after it dies..? I have also been told that its something to do with the crickets or something? im not sure if this relates to the puking but maybe??

 

[DeShawn]

It is for sure the crickets. There is a disease that crickets get that can affect various other insects and reptiles. As Christian stated, it can also affect flies and other insects, although it is far more rare. I have had flies infect my mantids 1 time ever. It can also infect fruitflies occasionally, but they are so small it only seems to kill very young mantids, L1-L2 or so. You will usually notice a red line or trail in the mantids enclosure when it has the bacteria, although they do not always die from it. A friend of mine told me more about it a few months ago, but I forget the name of it. It used to kill my mantids every time, but now I have gotten pretty good at fixing the problem by doing the following things:

1. Change/clean and sterilize the container everyday when you notice the bacteria in the enclosure.

2. Don't feed or give water to the mantid for a couple days. This is usually best when the mantid gets bigger and can go a few days without eating.

3. Stop feeding crickets. Switch to roaches or flies, preferably roaches as they seem to be immune to the bacteria (they live through almost anything!). I have never had any problems with roaches.

I have noticed that it only happened to me now when I used crickets I had just purchased, or crickets that had been feeding on carrots. I still use crickets often with my mantids, but only a week after I get them (I order 1000 at a time) and they have been eating the food I prepare for them. I also only feed light colored healthy looking crix to my mantids.

I have also noticed this affected P. wahlbergii more than any of my other species. And something Christian stated may have solved a problem I have been wondering about for a few weeks now. He stated that those infected are often infertile as adults. I keep track of all my breeder mantids... molting dates, problems, dates mated, etc etc. 4 out of 7 male wahlbergii and 2 females were spewing this bacteria when I got them at L6. Looking back at the records now, NONE of the females that were bred with those males, nor those 2 females laid any fertile ooths (or at least have not hatched yet, 7 weeks and counting). They also often lay crappy and/or partial ooths. I guess I can toss out those ooths now eh? The ooths from the 3 females that were mated with the non-infected males are hatching on time, predictable to the day.

Anyway, sorry so long, but that has been my experience.

DeShawn

 

[13ollox]

Sh*te , My Mantis Has it !!! 13ollox 13ollox 13ollox , she is my 1st mantis and i dont want her to die !!! theres nasty reddy brown stuff all over its enclousure and its spewing loads right now , i have only fed her crix and so i guess thats the end for her ... thats really peeved me off !!! the crix were fed salad things only ( no carrots ) and its still got it :evil: , im really pissed right now !!! any ideas how i shud ease her pain ?

sadly yours

Neil

 

[ellroy]

Thats a real shame..... I'm not saying its definitely the parasite but if you decide to put it out of its misery, freezing it is probably the most humane method.....leave it in over night to be sure its dead.

Alan

 

[DeShawn]

Depending on her size/age and how strong she is now, she could possibly get over it. It is not a death sentence 100%. I have sent you a pm.

 

[Candy]

I know this was started a while ago and and I'm probably of no help now but I thought I would throw in my 2 cents worth since I haven't seen this mentioned any where and I may start a thread on it just to get others' thoughts. I know that crickets can carry aflatoxins. They get by the food the cricket supplier or pet store usually feeds them. Suppliers and stores feed crickets a ground up corn mixture and if it gets moldy the crickets become affected with aflatoxins I know this has caused problems in insect eating mammals (ie: sugar gliders) where in some cases the animal has died. I have not heard of aflatoxin affecting reptiles and don't know if it would cause problems with mantids or other insects. From what I understand the aflatoxin affects the crickets DNA and therefore they can not be "cured" of it. I don't know if any of this helps or if it makes sense but it may be the underlying cause for sick mantids.

 

[Ian]

Wow, nice work candy. Thanks for the advice on that. I have given up on feeding crickets to most of my mantids...usually stick with hoppers, roaches and flies.

 

[DeShawn]

That is very useful information. There are lots of things that could effect crickets, but this one is a biggy. I stopped using crickets myself for awhile, but have since learned how to prevent/minimize the problems with them. I put a bit of info on my site about it (haven't posted it live yet) http://www.mantiskingdom.com/index.php?mk=crickets. Crickets are a big part of my mantids diet again, and I have had no problems at all lately (knock on wood).

Thanks for the info Candy! Excellent post.

 

[Christian]

Hi.

The problem is: crickets as such are not bad at all. I would like to use them. But mass-reared, bought crickets are the problem. If you breed your crickets for yourself, there should be no difficulties. I know people who feed self-grown crickets without any sickness symptoms. As I cannot do this, I stopped feeding them.

Regards,

Christian

 

[Rick]

I feed mainly crickets. Only about once or twice a year do I have problems like this.

 

[Butterflyhornet]

I get simular problems with caterpillars, only the caterpillars vomit, more often than diarrhea. Most often for them it becomes a death sentence. I've only had one and it was a monarch that survived and it was a miracle how it made it from almost being dead twice to make it through to be a healthy adult. I remember holding the sickly caterpillar near a lamp and gentley pressing on it to get it to expell the contaminated content and hoping and praying for the best. I think I also used a baby wipe or a tiny amount of hydrogen peroxide on a tissue to clean the body. I think the heat from the lamp helped. The prayer may have helped too, I don't know.

I wonder if what attacks my caterpillars on a yearly basis could be a related disease? Perhaps it affects all insects (or larvae) with a large gut?

My thoughts it may be bacteria or virus based. Insects can suffer viruses too.

 

[DeShawn]

You can get a spray at www.livemonarch.com that helps with your caterpillars. I would imagine it would be useful for many insects. I used them on my wahlbergii when I was having a problem with infections and it helped quite a bit.

 

[Rory]

mine have had this problem, I thought it was overfeeding so I didn't feed for 5 days, and the problem was fixed. I noticed it on the moult aswell, it kind of made it hard for him to moult.