Mantis Gene

[minomantis]

Quick question. 

I don't want this to be another for discussion, but my question is do you think mantids need to have a certain color Gene for them to express a certain color or do you think they all are able to express it, but it's just a matter of how they were raised. 

I'm aware that genes is what makes up an individual creature and what is expressed depends on that, but environment is important too right? Not really talking about the browns and greens, but like the species that have drastic color varieties, the golds and greens or green to rust color. Any thoughts?

 

[Synapze]

Very interesting question. I don't have an answer, but here's what I do know. 

I captured this mantis and this is how green it was. 

Within 2-3 weeks it turned drab brown even though its enclosure contained greenery. 

I've also purchased 2 "color phase" Hierodula in the past, one pink, one yellow... both turned out to be green. That particular dealer doesn't have a good reputation, so I can't be 100% certain if he was being truthful.

Perhaps it's a combination of both?

I'm interested to read what some of our forum experts think. 

 

[minomantis]

I've also purchased 2 "color phase" Hierodula in the past, one pink, one yellow... both turned out to be green. 

What does color phase mantis mean and is that a Tenodera sinensis in the picture? 

 

[Synapze]

Honestly, I don't know what color phase means, but some are advertised as rare or "new to the trade". I don't know if they use a technique of color enhancement by some means. Neither of the H. nymphs I purchased were pink or yellow as nymphs and never developed the colors as they matured. 

Yep... Chinese. It was one of the greenest I had personally ever seen... I was so disappointed when it lost its color.

 

[ohaple]

If its like most inverts, color is one part genetics and one part environment.

Isopods and freshwater shrimp are a good example. They can be selectively bred to display different or better coloration. But you can make the color better or worse through environment. Freshwater shrimp are probably the best example. Here is a chart that shows how they have been bred, strictly through genetics.

It shows that even though there are only five or so "wild types," the color possibilities are huge. People have been able to breed brown shrimp to be blue, and red shrimp to be green. Plain shrimp to be striped. All due to selective breeding and the randomness created through sexual reproduction.

BUT! You also can see serious differences in the coloration of the shrimp based on the substrate color used, the water parameters, and the food used. Part of this seems to be adaptation for camouflage and survival. The shrimp may instinctively make color darker so that they blend in with the dark substrate and they can express better color if they have the nutrients needed to do so. Stress seems to make color worse.

While this isn't 1:1 transferrable to mantises, it is common from what I have read about most invertebrates. The problem with mantises is that the lifecycle is so long and each specimen is so valuable that breeding and culling is not as frequent or practical. It is very common for isopod breeders and shrimp breeders to keep a "cull tank" where they separate out the worst looking specimens so that only the best looking ones breed. We don't usually do the same with mantises. Isopods, roaches, shrimp, etc are all quick and prolific breeders so the hobby tends to be more about refining your breeding line than for caring for any single specimen.

We personally notice our ghost mantises changing color rapidly as their environment changes. Sometimes they become a light brown, then black, then dark reddish brown, all in a few weeks time.

 

[minomantis]

Wow, thank you @ohaple for your detailed response! I greatly appreciate it! A lot of good stuff and makes me think about a couple ideas. One thing I didn't know though, ghost mantises can change color in between molts? I thought mantids can only change after a molt? 

 

[ohaple]

Wow, thank you @ohaple for your detailed response! I greatly appreciate it! A lot of good stuff and makes me think about a couple ideas. One thing I didn't know though, ghost mantises can change color in between molts? I thought mantids can only change after a molt? 

We see them change color during a molt but also the color gets lighter or darker between molts. Nothing like changing from brown to green, but varying shades of the same color.

 

[Graceface]

We see them change color during a molt but also the color gets lighter or darker between molts. Nothing like changing from brown to green, but varying shades of the same color.

I have a ghost that is changing from brown to green Color develops as they age with some species, like Ghosts. One of my females was reddish brown her whole life and is now turning a faded green at L6. It really depends on a lot of factors with some mantids. (I've read green color variant in Phyllocrania Paradoxa is a genetic linked trait, according to Keeping The Praying Mantis by Orin)