Mantis Handling Questions (second mantis, I want to do this right)

[FleshOdium]

I recently lost my very first mantis "Frost". Whom was a ghost mantis. Old age got him, but being a beginner I had no idea what the tell tale signs of ageing was in mantids, so with a distraught outlook and assumption I'd never again own another mantis a forum user here (Sally) gave me some hope and confidence and offered me a new mantis baby. So I'm diving in again and hoping for an even more enriching experience with this little girl or guy when it arrives.

To the question! I didn't really touch my ghost often due to being so used to owning a turantula, and in that hobby holding a spider isn't highly suggested. Thus I let him Frost be for most of his life. But I have noticed many people hold their mantids, even so much as let them out to roam. I'd like to do this for my new baby. Grow a really strong bond. But I just need to know when is ok to start handling one, if there is a size you should wait to hold them at, or if you can start when they are small. I would also like to know how to properly handle them as well as convince them to get on you with minimal stress put on the insect.

Thanks for the help, and so far the really welcoming community.

 

[Rick]

You cannot "grow a really strong bond" with an animal like a mantis. You may be able to make the animal accustomed to handling but I doubt there is any sort of bonding taking place between mantis and mantis keeper. It is my opinion that too much handling is actually detrimental to mantids. I see them more as a look don't touch type of pet. When I was much younger I would handle mantids excessively and it was not good for them. Handling also increases the chances of an accident, and allowing the mantis to roam freely increases the chances of loosing the mantis. If you want something you can hold you should probably look at another type of animal. That is my opinion but I'm sure many others will reply saying the opposite.

 

[LAME]

Personally.... I bring my little ones out once a day, i figure why not? if you're careful and keep an eye on them I dont really see any harm in it. Though I do agree with Rick on what he says on the whole "bonding" with the mantids, and people can go over board with handling and such.. But at the same time we all enjoy a little fresh air now and again.
As for age.. i found my little ones right after the first molt, they were as small as a dime and they've all been handled and are all still very much healthy.

 

[Ntsees]

If you're refering to photos when you see people hold their mantids, it could be just for that photo shoot so try not to get the impression that people hold their mantids often (if not, nevermind). The only thing I can do is make an educational guess as to why you should limit holding your mantis. A mantid naturally does not move often. If you see mantid moving a good distance, it's usually moving only to find a good spot so it can sit still. Having a mantis move more often than it should wastes a lot of unnecessary energy. This applies from instars to the adults, with the exception of male adults searching for mates.

 

[Sticky]

Be careful when they are tiny, one jump on the baby's part and it could get lost! I wait until they are mostly grown and easy to see.

I use honey as a treat to teach them that my hand is a good place to sit. It might take time for the baby to learn but depending, they will learn. I take mine for walkies on my hat on warm days. I think the mantis enjoys it.

 

[Domanating]

You cannot "grow a really strong bond" with an animal like a mantis. You may be able to make the animal accustomed to handling but I doubt there is any sort of bonding taking place between mantis and mantis keeper. It is my opinion that too much handling is actually detrimental to mantids. I see them more as a look don't touch type of pet. When I was much younger I would handle mantids excessively and it was not good for them. Handling also increases the chances of an accident, and allowing the mantis to roam freely increases the chances of loosing the mantis. If you want something you can hold you should probably look at another type of animal. That is my opinion but I'm sure many others will reply saying the opposite.

+1 to everything.

First of all a mantis life is just too short. Also, the closest you can go on "bonding" is the mantis getting used to your presence. In other words, it stops looking at you as a threat. They are smart insects and they can learn. If you hang around them long enough, they can stop running from you or associate your presence with food for example, so they run to you.

Basically, like most exotic pets they tolerate you and your presence. It doesn't mean they like you. That's the farthest you can go on "bonding".

As for handling, pretty much everything has been said about it. I don't recommend handling them too much or not at all either. If you still want to hold them, I recommend you to do it when they already have their wings, so they don't have to molt anymore.

 

[FleshOdium]

You cannot "grow a really strong bond" with an animal like a mantis. You may be able to make the animal accustomed to handling but I doubt there is any sort of bonding taking place between mantis and mantis keeper. It is my opinion that too much handling is actually detrimental to mantids. I see them more as a look don't touch type of pet. When I was much younger I would handle mantids excessively and it was not good for them. Handling also increases the chances of an accident, and allowing the mantis to roam freely increases the chances of loosing the mantis. If you want something you can hold you should probably look at another type of animal. That is my opinion but I'm sure many others will reply saying the opposite.

Personally.... I bring my little ones out once a day, i figure why not? if you're careful and keep an eye on them I dont really see any harm in it. Though I do agree with Rick on what he says on the whole "bonding" with the mantids, and people can go over board with handling and such.. But at the same time we all enjoy a little fresh air now and again.

As for age.. i found my little ones right after the first molt, they were as small as a dime and they've all been handled and are all still very much healthy.

If you're refering to photos when you see people hold their mantids, it could be just for that photo shoot so try not to get the impression that people hold their mantids often (if not, nevermind). The only thing I can do is make an educational guess as to why you should limit holding your mantis. A mantid naturally does not move often. If you see mantid moving a good distance, it's usually moving only to find a good spot so it can sit still. Having a mantis move more often than it should wastes a lot of unnecessary energy. This applies from instars to the adults, with the exception of male adults searching for mates.

+1 to everything.

First of all a mantis life is just too short. Also, the closest you can go on "bonding" is the mantis getting used to your presence. In other words, it stops looking at you as a threat. They are smart insects and they can learn. If you hang around them long enough, they can stop running from you or associate your presence with food for example, so they run to you.

Basically, like most exotic pets they tolerate you and your presence. It doesn't mean they like you. That's the farthest you can go on "bonding".

As for handling, pretty much everything has been said about it. I don't recommend handling them too much or not at all either. If you still want to hold them, I recommend you to do it when they already have their wings, so they don't have to molt anymore.

Thanks for all the help. Although it is my fault for not clarifying, but I did not mean I wanted the mantis to bond. As I said I have owned turantula's and am fully aware that the idea of love, bonding or anything other than basic instinct should not be expected out of an insect. I was talking about myself bonding more. I adored Frost, but I didn't develop as strong of a bond as I could of due to the lack of contact and interaction. This one I would like to handle periodically. If anything I believe it'll just get used to me, like Domanating mentioned.

I have seen and heard of many people that just let their mantis sit on them for hours, for example the quote below \/ \/. Which is what gave me the intial impression that it isn't as frowned upon as turantula holding. That being said, I respect that they probably shouldn't be handled often.

Be careful when they are tiny, one jump on the baby's part and it could get lost! I wait until they are mostly grown and easy to see.

I use honey as a treat to teach them that my hand is a good place to sit. It might take time for the baby to learn but depending, they will learn. I take mine for walkies on my hat on warm days. I think the mantis enjoys it.

Honey! Of course. That's something I always forget they like. Also it's adorable that you take yours for a walk. ; - ;

 

[Jinx]

I let most of my mantids be without much interaction. However, I've had some that don't mind being held and I will often let them chill on me for most of the day. One of my first Ghosts would climb up out of his cage and sit on my wrist while I was at the computer. The others would get really stressed, but he would just rock back and forth watching the cursor like a cat.

 

[Krissim Klaw]

Interacting with tarantulas tends to be frowned upon because of how easy you can hurt a lot of archnids with even a minor drop.

Most mantises, in my opinion are far hardier. Unless you are walking them over hard tile, even in a fall they can be fairly resilient. The also lack irritating hairs or venom. Mantises are highly motion orientated creatures and they seem to enjoy having more than dried paint to look at. I take my mantises out regularly. I have numerous plants set up around my room for them to settle on. I've never had any adverse health effects from handling. Nor have my mantises ever acted stressed.

I could walk around easily with my current Creobroter girl, Wicked, perched on my shoulder. She is such a chill little bug. A lot of this has to do with species. Some like Creobroter genus will sit for days in one place. Then you have the Tenodera sinensis that can run marathons around your room, checking anything out that moves if given the space.

 

[bobericc]

For me it depends on the actual species and the handler, most mantids like to be waved at with wiggling fingers. I've had mantis that seem to get excited by the interaction, like rhombodera and hierodula.. then I've had mantis that don't like interaction like blue flash and sybilla. You can tell if a mantis is skittish and doesn't want to be held and you can tell a mantis who's face is smooshed up against the plastic is curious to go on a further excursion. Same thing applies to smaller sp, its just harder handling because of the size of the mantis so its easier to injure them. Jmho

 

[Extrememantid]

I handle L1's for short periods of time, they turn out just fine

 

[Rick]

Thanks for all the help. Although it is my fault for not clarifying, but I did not mean I wanted the mantis to bond. As I said I have owned turantula's and am fully aware that the idea of love, bonding or anything other than basic instinct should not be expected out of an insect. I was talking about myself bonding more. I adored Frost, but I didn't develop as strong of a bond as I could of due to the lack of contact and interaction. This one I would like to handle periodically. If anything I believe it'll just get used to me, like Domanating mentioned.

I have seen and heard of many people that just let their mantis sit on them for hours, for example the quote below \/ \/. Which is what gave me the intial impression that it isn't as frowned upon as turantula holding. That being said, I respect that they probably shouldn't be handled often.

Honey! Of course. That's something I always forget they like. Also it's adorable that you take yours for a walk. ; - ;

I don't believe mantids operate purely on instinct. In fact I believe some research has shown quite the opposite. I think the question here really is not can you handle, but should you handle? I've handled plenty of mantids and it should be fine in moderation. As long as you understand how to coax a mantis onto your hand I think it is probably okay. Keep them from being stressed if probably the best way. Handling also increases risk to the mantis though.

One thing I wish more people would do is stop anthropomorphizing their mantids. As far as I know there is no evidence to suggest mantids bond with humans or "enjoy" anything you do with or to them. We tend to see what we think we should or what appears to be taking place in our interactions. A mantis doesn't like you waving your fingers in their face, they may sense the movement as food or a predator or even perhaps a higher perch.

 

[bobericc]

I don't believe mantids operate purely on instinct. In fact I believe some research has shown quite the opposite. I think the question here really is not can you handle, but should you handle? I've handled plenty of mantids and it should be fine in moderation. As long as you understand how to coax a mantis onto your hand I think it is probably okay. Keep them from being stressed if probably the best way. Handling also increases risk to the mantis though.

One thing I wish more people would do is stop anthropomorphizing their mantids. As far as I know there is no evidence to suggest mantids bond with humans or "enjoy" anything you do with or to them. We tend to see what we think we should or what appears to be taking place in our interactions. A mantis doesn't like you waving your fingers in their face, they may sense the movement as food or a predator or even perhaps a higher perch.

Seeing as this is definitely directed at what I posted too, in reality, what scientific evidence do you have to back up the idea that mantids don't like to be held or having fingers waved near them either? This would be interested to see done in a study. I remember reading a study on the mantid learning process and every time the mantis attacked a certain food source it was shocked, it definitely has the capability to make distinctions between food. I think you said mantids can also learn to be 'accustomed' to handling, how do you go about this then other than handling them and making it a possitive experience? haven't you had a mantis desperately try to reach for you, stretching out its abdomen and everything to get onto you? I'm fine knowing I'm my mantids favorite perch then lol, and respectively, no insect really deserves to be anthropomorphisized more than the mantis or the ant imo. I'm sorry for you, that these things annoy you though.

 

[Krissim Klaw]

I don't believe mantids operate purely on instinct. In fact I believe some research has shown quite the opposite. I think the question here really is not can you handle, but should you handle? I've handled plenty of mantids and it should be fine in moderation. As long as you understand how to coax a mantis onto your hand I think it is probably okay. Keep them from being stressed if probably the best way. Handling also increases risk to the mantis though.

I will agree with you on the how you handle part. I sometimes find myself surprised at how rough I've seen other people be when handling. I've always considered handling mantises properly to be something that takes both parties willingness. You offer your hand and they choose if they want to crawl up. Yes there are some little tricks to getting them moving, but if your mantis is throwing threat poses or flailing around, your doing something wrong. In all the years I've handled mantises I've never needed to grab a mantis by force.

I enjoy the zen like feeling I get from holding a mantis. Today I spent a half hour relaxing on my porch with my girl, Wicked, on my hand. She ate a small dragon fly, beetle, and three flies while out with me, so I think she finds our relationship mutally beneficial.

 

[Domanating]

Seeing as this is definitely directed at what I posted too, in reality, what scientific evidence do you have to back up the idea that mantids don't like to be held or having fingers waved near them either?

Common sense maybe? We know that insects have simpler brains, each of their legs is controlled by their own nearly independent nervous system, driven by instinct. They are creatures that roamed this planet for millions of years, hardwired to react to the tiniest movements as prey or a threat, find high ground, find cover, stay motionless. And then suddenly someone comes along and waves his fingers at him: "hmmmm.... He looks quite friendly so I will probably ditch my million years evolution and trust my life on this random and apparently scaringly huge creature".

 

[sally]

I love to feed a bit of honey to my mantids I feel they can "learn" that I am not a threat and that I offer honey. They like that honey lol.

 

[Krissim Klaw]

Common sense maybe? We know that insects have simpler brains, each of their legs is controlled by their own nearly independent nervous system, driven by instinct. They are creatures that roamed this planet for millions of years, hardwired to react to the tiniest movements as prey or a threat, find high ground, find cover, stay motionless. And then suddenly someone comes along and waves his fingers at him: "hmmmm.... He looks quite friendly so I will probably ditch my million years evolution and trust my life on this random and apparently scaringly huge creature".

Maybe there is something about hand waving though that their simple brains are attracted to. I understand where people are coming from when it comes to the hand waving. Certain species like Tenodera sinensis often seem drawn to the visial stimulia. They are an active not easily startled mantis that likes to check moving things out. Whether it is for food or a climbing perch, doesn't really matter to me. It is what intially drew me to mantises when I was a little kid. I caught an adult, female Tenodera sinensis and was amazed by her fearless attitude and the way she would reach out to climb up on an offered hand.

This convo made me think of this gif. Makes me chuckle everytime.