Mating 2 males with the same female?

[kitkat39]

What happens when you mate the same mantis female with two different males? Might be a stupid question, but I know that with some other insect species, the next male that comes along will actually reach in and scoop out all of the sperm from the previous male so ensure that it is HIS genes that get passed on. Not sure if mantis do this or not.

I just like to try to breed things to try to bring out certain genes to the next generation rather than just breeding them just to breed them. I'm just not sure what the case would be if I tried to mate a female with another male before she's even laid her first ooth. Maybe 50/50? Maybe no genes from the 2nd male that comes along? I dunno..... just thought I'd ask to see if anyone else can shine some light.

 

[psyconiko]

I think this is a good question!

I also select specimens before mating and usually I mate my females more than once when I can.

Since mantis males do not "fight" for females,it might be possible that the female is able to keep both gametes from males and choose the "best" one like some other animals...But I do not know, we have to keep experimentating...and open a genetic lab

 

[massaman]

Nope they dont not like some other animals do

 

[hibiscusmile]

I can honestly say.... I DON'T HAVE A CLUE! :lol:

 

[MantidLord]

Maybe the ones with the stronger genes are used. Or like someone said, both are sued. That's why I try to mate my females with multiple males.

 

[psyconiko]

Maybe the ones with the stronger genes are used. Or like someone said, both are sued. That's why I try to mate my females with multiple males.

Yes there is a fly able to do that "Scathophaga stercoraria".When mated more than once the female can reject the sperm of a male and keep an other.There is a good article on wiki called Sperm competition.

 

[Colorcham427]

the hills have eyes!!!!!!!!! LOL I always have pondered at this bro. I think the more love the better off they are lol, based on content of course lol not saying they'll hatch more nymphs...

 

[Rick]

Maybe the ones with the stronger genes are used. Or like someone said, both are sued. That's why I try to mate my females with multiple males.

Really no such thing as "stronger" genes. If I had to guess I would imagine that the offspring will be a mix from both males. I have no idea if any research has been done with this in mantids but it would be interesting to know.

 

[lancaster1313]

Mantis paternity test, anyone? :lol:

 

[MantidLord]

Really no such thing as "stronger" genes. If I had to guess I would imagine that the offspring will be a mix from both males. I have no idea if any research has been done with this in mantids but it would be interesting to know.

Yeah, maybe. An experiment on this would definitely be interesting. Especially considering the females don't really select which males to mate with (you can argue that they eat the "unfit" ones, but that's not always true). If it is a mixture of both, I wonder how it's distributed.

 

[Termite48]

Not so sure which female insects (other than crickets) do demonstrate the ability to select sperm (cryptic female choice), but some do. The male that has the "sloppy seconds" title here, does in some species have the physical wherewithall to remove the prexisting sperm, and then inject his. Kinda reminds one of the male dog peeing on the fire hydrant syndrome. What happens to the scent of the prior male? Genetically speaking, the more or the larger the gene pool, the better for the offspring( genetic diversity) in the long run, except when mating and trying for specific physical traits that only exist in one or a very few males. Still one is better using more than one male from a genetic point of view. Also you might want to look into the phenomenon which is shown by males when copulating, when they tap on the dorsal surface (wings) of the female, while they are insemmenating the female.

 

[patrickfraser]

I try to mate my females with multiple partners when possible. What if the first male is shooting blanks? I like to hedge my bets, "just in case". I'm a mantis pimp daddy and I try to get as much biodiversity "injected" into the line as possible.

 

[dragon]

*sigh* I was hoping someone had an answer for this very question.

 

[PhilinYuma]

*sigh* I was hoping someone had an answer for this very question.

No need for a sigh! All of this has been discussed and explained before, and as Rick suggests, anyone who talks about "stronger genes" should go on the Internet and check out the basics of genetics or --gasp -- buy a book on the subject.

I have mentioned many times, with links, the research at Macquarrie uni in Sydney that has been work on sperm competition in mantids for years.

So yes, the more males that you introduce to a female the better, and the closer it is likely to be to the situation in nature, but if you only have two males and a bunch of females, realize that once eaten, a male has little reproductive value.

 

[Ntsees]

If you mate the female with 2 or more males, you'll just get more genetic diversity. At one time, I did mate my female with a second male when the previous males spermatophore was still with the female. The second male did remove the spermatophore but I doubt he removed all of the previous males sperm.

 

[ismart]

If you mate the female with 2 or more males, you'll just get more genetic diversity. At one time, I did mate my female with a second male when the previous males spermatophore was still with the female. The second male did remove the spermatophore but I doubt he removed all of the previous males sperm.

This is interesting! I had just the opposite. My second male was unable to make a proper connection due to last males spermatophore was in the way. He rode on her back till it was absorbed, or rejected! The specimens were Hierodula multispina. Ntsees, were the specimens you are talking about Iris oratoria? If so, then i would not be the slightest bit surprised if the second male was able to remove the first males spermatophore. Iris males are relentless when they are trying to mate!

 

[Ntsees]

This is interesting! I had just the opposite. My second male was unable to make a proper connection due to last males spermatophore was in the way. He rode on her back till it was absorbed, or rejected! The specimens were Hierodula multispina. Ntsees, were the specimens you are talking about Iris oratoria? If so, then i would not be the slightest bit surprised if the second male was able to remove the first males spermatophore. Iris males are relentless when they are trying to mate!

Yes, it is Iris oratoria. But I forgot to mention that I've also experienced what you mentioned too - that the second male wasn't able to mate at all because of the first's spermatophore.

 

[dragon]

anyone who talks about "stronger genes" should go on the Internet and check out the basics of genetics or --gasp -- buy a book on the subject.

So yes, the more males that you introduce to a female the better, and the closer it is likely to be to the situation in nature, but if you only have two males and a bunch of females, realize that once eaten, a male has little reproductive value.

Well the concept of "stronger genes" isn't the issue ... actually I found that rather amusing. But then I have a biology background.

What I was hoping to find the answer to was whether, after a mating with 2nd male (or 3rd or whatever), would the resulting offspring be just his or a mix of both males or.... Not being familiar with the female's sperm storage capabilities, I was wondering if all sperm -- from however many males -- gets dumped into the same reservoir and as such gets mixed together, or whether there is some sort of compartmentalization by which one male's sperm is "isolated" from anothers and if, in that event, there is some sort of prioritization determining which male's sperm will be used. And while some may find this an odd query -- the world can be a very odd place.

 

[nebrakacinese]

My first mating of mantids I was really ,really early to the hobby.I bred a female with 2 males,not at the same time of course.It was successful and I raised the nymps.I was thinking the other day,if mantids ovulate much like other animals? My first mating was of chinese.