molting to adult from wall of enclosure

[Mantis Mama]

Hi all,

I have a Chinese female mantis who has been gearing up to her last molt for

three days now.  I am a bit anxious about the process since she doesn't have both

hind legs, just one that is useable.  In order to have an issue-free final molt I have

been encouraging her to stay on the ceiling of her enclosure (shelf liner attached).

She keeps moving onto other places - a branch, or the side of the enclosure.  So,

I've removed the branch.  But now she's back on the side of the enclosure and it

looks like molting is coming up quickly.  Do I risk putting her back up on the ceiling?

Can she have a successful molt from the side wall?

 

[CosbyArt]

@Mantis Mama I have had some mantises survive a molt on the side of the container (up high), although the chances are lower than if they are hanging from a lid or high branch. In your situation though with your mantis missing legs it sounds like she is choosing the best place where she can hang on and fight the pull of gravity.

I would just leave her there, as long as she is high enough on the wall above the bottom and has plenty of room below to successfully molt, her odds are likely the best they will be anywhere.

 

[LAME]

@Mantis Mama I have had some mantises survive a molt on the side of the container (up high), although the chances are lower than if they are hanging from a lid or high branch. In your situation though with your mantis missing legs it sounds like she is choosing the best place where she can hang on and fight the pull of gravity.

I would just leave her there, as long as she is high enough on the wall above the bottom and has plenty of room below to successfully molt, her odds are likely the best they will be anywhere.

Agreed. I've had idolos do this as well, very nerve wracking.. however like cosbyart stated, if he/she is high up enough it should be alright. If anything keep a close eye on it

 

[Mantis Mama]

Thanks!

When I went back to check on her she was folded over, almost double - hanging there.  I didn't think the molting would go well in this position so I tried moving her.  She was all soft and wonky.  I managed to drape some shelf liner over a paint stir stick and angled it over her enclosure such that she could walk off when the time came. She did manage to hang on as I tilted the surface. 

The first half of the molting went well and then she seemed to be struggling to get her hind legs out.  So after standing there for what seemed like 'forever' holding the stick/liner I wondered if she was having a problem.  And what could I do?  I was getting concerened that she would dry with her legs stuck in the old exoskeleton.  I very carefully tried to move the old skin away from where the new legs were trying to come out.  She suddenly came free and went onto the walk off section, but she was all limp and not holding herself up.  I took a good look at her and saw that her rear end was oozing quite a bit.  Did she come free too early and tear something? Has anybody seen this before?  Do they normally hang there a long time after the forelegs have started drying and still have their hind legs in the old skin?  Should I just leave them if I see this happen again?

I got called away before I sent the above and have been trying to get her into a good rehab position.  Her wings are all ruffled and bent but I am concerned about the function of her vital systems.  Even once the wound seals over, will she be able to eliminate properly etc. ?  Will the healing bit fall off, like our scabs do?

This Chinese mantis raising sure isn't for the faint of heart - there have been so many issues from the time of the hatch until now! 

They are such amazing creatures, yet so delicate and vulnerable.

 

[CosbyArt]

@Mantis Mama They will sit in the half completed molt (bottom of their walking legs and tip of the abdomen still in the old exuviae) for about 30 minutes to an hour to dry enough to finish the molting process and pull themselves completely free; although, some are a bit faster. If she is oozing anything that means she was damaged in the molt (there is no external fluids in the process), likely she came out much too soon (or fell out) and with the still soft exoskeleton it was ripped (when molting it is very soft and pliable, but has no stretch and will easily tear - like stretched bubblegum in a large bubble).

Yes, if they are molting leave them be as nearly 95% of the time any interference to the mantis will result in terrible damage/deformities/death - and in that state there is little that can be done even if something does go wrong (again the new exoskeleton is so soft even touching them lightly can cause internal damage/torn skin/broken limbs/stretch-deformed limbs/to just about anything).

Wings are purely cosmetic in pets, in the wild they are used for threat displays and for males to fly to find a mate - so no problem there.

There is no way of knowing how much damage she may have sustained during the molt for at least a day or more. Perhaps after she finished drying/hardening in 24 hours some photos can be taken to help judge her condition, but often times it takes more than a photo to witness any feeding problems, digestion/passing frass (poop), walking/climbing issues, or anything else that can be a issue. So in that respect you will have to watch her closely to see what if anything is a problem.

In the meantime I do not know of anything that can help her at the very least until her exoskeleton fully hardens (24 hours), as any aid/intervention may be worse than the problem.

 

[Mantis Mama]

Okay, thanks.  This whole molting thing makes me so nervous.  I'm so happy when I see four legs hanging out to dry!  I have three more mantises awaiting their final molt. One of them will be an L9 male!  I think he'll be larger than the females by the time he gets his wings.

Anyway, I guess I need to find that balance between being ready to intervene and patiently waiting for the process to proceed however is normal at each step along the way to adulthood.

I held off feeding solids to the poor mantis with the tear at her rear end.  This morning I gave her some honey, tonight she looked like she was getting kind of unsettled so I took a chance and presented a fly to her.  She eagerly snatched it from my tweezers.  Now, the waiting, to see if she is able to pass waste material out properly.  By the looks of things, she might not be able to form an ootheca correctly - I'm not sure, but something doesn't look right. 

 

[CosbyArt]

@Mantis Mama Your welcome, but sorry I can't provide a quick fix in such cases.

It does worry us all, especially a beloved special pet. Many will do everything they can for them to successfully molt (good placement, humidity, etc), then leave the room to let them do their thing (as they find it too hard to watch).

See this photo from Piotr Naskrecki that shows the 8 instars of the Chinese mantis (Tenodera sinensis), and the last two images/frames is right before the initial drying process I told you about (the 30 minutes to 1 hour time) and as it starts to pull free afterwards.

Males sometimes tend to appear longer, but are much smaller than females in overall size/girth as is the case in nearly all mantises (sexual dimorphism). In some species the male is even less than half the size of a female (such as the Orchids (Hymenopus coronatus) - see Tammy's site/photo of them here). That said if your male is larger, then I would suggest you take a look here to properly identify their sex as there is a mix-up somewhere.

That's great news that she is eating, and is a relief on many potential problems. If she can pass frass (poop) then she should be in even better shape, and can likely at least expel her ootheca when it comes times even if she can't lay it properly.