I answered desana's question more properly than you did. I am not willing to attend a discussion which is artificially continued just for the sake of argumenting against someone - without even being willing to reflect over the arguments of the other side. You have really hijacked desana's thread, as your arguments fit neither my stuff nor the initial question. Desana asked for something like an innate mortality rate. I have pointed out that this doesn't exist. Take it or leave it, I have better things to do than feeding a dead discussion. I have said everything "technically" important, there is nothing to add.
mortality rates?
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sidewinder
Well-known member
Christian,
Here is my finally reply to you:
I never attempted to answer desana's question. For all practical purposes, neither did you. You took the academic approach which gave desana no practical information.
If mantid breeders do everything that is correct based on the current level of knowledge of the various mantid species raised in captivity, there still is a variable mortality rate. Why? Because we don't have the knowledge to do better. Yes, in a perfect world, the mantid mortality rate would generally be similar from species to species. But, we don't live in a perfect world and we don't know everything there is to know about the requirements of mantids raised in captivity. As new information becomes available on specific species requirements, mortality rates will go down.
In the mean time, there is data available that shows that some species are harder to raise to maturity than others. Even if the breeder does what is known to be correct. That is the information that desana was looking for.
S-
Here is my finally reply to you:
I never attempted to answer desana's question. For all practical purposes, neither did you. You took the academic approach which gave desana no practical information.
If mantid breeders do everything that is correct based on the current level of knowledge of the various mantid species raised in captivity, there still is a variable mortality rate. Why? Because we don't have the knowledge to do better. Yes, in a perfect world, the mantid mortality rate would generally be similar from species to species. But, we don't live in a perfect world and we don't know everything there is to know about the requirements of mantids raised in captivity. As new information becomes available on specific species requirements, mortality rates will go down.
In the mean time, there is data available that shows that some species are harder to raise to maturity than others. Even if the breeder does what is known to be correct. That is the information that desana was looking for.
S-
Rob Byatt
Well-known member
I feel a little input from somone else is needed here 
I'm sure Christian did give, in your words, practical information:
Sidewinder (Scott ?), I have one question for you and I don't mean this is a personal dig or a way to cause more arguments, but what exactly is your experience with keeping mantids - years, weeks, months ?
Last edited by a moderator:
sidewinder
Well-known member
Rob Byatt,
This is my last post in this thread.
The amount of experience I have raising mantids is not at issue here because I never tried to answer the valid question that desana asked. Christian's response was that any difference in mortality rate between mantid species is the fault of the breeder. After further discussion, it became clear that the only way mortality rates would be near equal is if breeders knew all about the special requirements of each species raised in captivity and continually maintained those requirements. That is academically or theoretically correct. But, in practice, not realistic. That's why there is variability in mortality rates amongst mantid species even when the breeders do nothing wrong based on current knowledge.
Now, we can discuss the fact that most breeders, even the best, are not perfect. Even if they know the ideal conditions for raising the mantids, the conditions will vary to some degree. The mantid species that are less affected by changes in conditions will have a lower mortality rate. Some species, for whatever reason, are just plain easier to raise than others. Just reading this forum and other forums that discuss mantid breeding makes that obvious. And not all of it because of bad breeders.
The bottom line here is that you have to look at the original question from a practical perspective and not from an academic perspective. Because that is how it was asked.
S-
P.S. In high school I raised a variety of insects, including mantids, for several years. My plan was to go into entomology or herpetology in college. While in high school, I worked two summers in the entomology department at Cal Tech (genetic research). I ended up in computer science instead because I thought there were more opportunities to make money there. I was right. In other words, I am not an idiot.
This is my last post in this thread.
The amount of experience I have raising mantids is not at issue here because I never tried to answer the valid question that desana asked. Christian's response was that any difference in mortality rate between mantid species is the fault of the breeder. After further discussion, it became clear that the only way mortality rates would be near equal is if breeders knew all about the special requirements of each species raised in captivity and continually maintained those requirements. That is academically or theoretically correct. But, in practice, not realistic. That's why there is variability in mortality rates amongst mantid species even when the breeders do nothing wrong based on current knowledge.
Now, we can discuss the fact that most breeders, even the best, are not perfect. Even if they know the ideal conditions for raising the mantids, the conditions will vary to some degree. The mantid species that are less affected by changes in conditions will have a lower mortality rate. Some species, for whatever reason, are just plain easier to raise than others. Just reading this forum and other forums that discuss mantid breeding makes that obvious. And not all of it because of bad breeders.
The bottom line here is that you have to look at the original question from a practical perspective and not from an academic perspective. Because that is how it was asked.
S-
P.S. In high school I raised a variety of insects, including mantids, for several years. My plan was to go into entomology or herpetology in college. While in high school, I worked two summers in the entomology department at Cal Tech (genetic research). I ended up in computer science instead because I thought there were more opportunities to make money there. I was right. In other words, I am not an idiot.
Last edited by a moderator:
Rob Byatt
Well-known member
I think you missed my point
Experience has everything to do with answering this question.
Experience has everything to do with answering this question.
Not sure of the relevance of the above, but you are right, this is a hobby, not a business. Come into it from a money standpoint and you are destined to fail.
