My first mantids ever found in wild, G. Grisea! Plus, mysterious ootheca

[CosbyArt]

Looking at this post: could my weird little things in the ootheca picture be liturgusa ootheca?? Should I start ordering springtails just in case? And that means that the liturgusa are now breeding in south florida, which I assume isn't good. I wonder how the heck they got here.

EDIT: where did the link go? http://mantidforum.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=9777&hl=liturgusa#entry56360

Indeed yours looks like the ones that yen_saw shared a photo of (linked to below), and looks a little smoke or cherry bomb. I would have never guessed it was a mantid ooth. A good catch by mantiseater, as it appears it explains the unknown ooths and perhaps your nymphs too.

In regards to how they got to Florida, there are a few ways - stowaways with freight/boats, a travelers unknown souvenir/hitchhiker, released by a irresponsible mantid keeper, introduced as a pest control back in the early 20th century in limited numbers, or naturally found their way (most unlikely). Seems to be a trend lately, as there are at least one mantid in California lately too that shouldn't be there.

 

[Rick]

Seems to be a trend lately, as there are at least one mantid in California lately too that shouldn't be there.

Care to elaborate?

 

[CosbyArt]

Care to elaborate?

Found it finally. The mysterious ooth and nymphs that hatched from one that DETHCHEEZ found, and seemed to be a Miomantis caffra. He sold some of the nymphs, but seems there never was a ID for the mantids that anyone agreed on. Member sgtkeens said he saw some of the mantids in LA too. Here is the thread about it all.

 

[mantiseater]

There is a very good chance that it is liturgusa Maya and was probably not introduced just overlooked and was called grisea. Also it may only be found in that area. The bigger the range the more likely for it to be discovered

 

[vulturette]

So any ideas if the ootheca are hatched or not? Since they the nymphs apparently come out of the tube. And I definitely need springtails right? Whatever is in these tiny ooths are tiny too x.x

 

[Rick]

So any ideas if the ootheca are hatched or not? Since they the nymphs apparently come out of the tube. And I definitely need springtails right? Whatever is in these tiny ooths are tiny too x.x

They don't appear to be. I wouldn't think they would come out of the "tube" part but I am not familiar with the species.

 

[vulturette]

They don't appear to be. I wouldn't think they would come out of the "tube" part but I am not familiar with the species.

The post I linked said that they do. So it wouldn't show the standard signs of being hatched. Might just have to wait them out. EDIT: also, the stem is hollow. So it makes sense to me.

 

[Rick]

The post I linked said that they do. So it wouldn't show the standard signs of being hatched. Might just have to wait them out. EDIT: also, the stem is hollow. So it makes sense to me.

Yep I see that now. I'd definitely set them up and wait and see if they hatch.

 

[vulturette]

All of the tubes were hollow and identical, so I decided to cut one open to see if it is hatched. It was! So I'm assuming that all of them are. I'll keep them just in case of course. I'd assume that if my hatched one the tube was open at the end, the nonhatched ones would have the end shut. I'll try and go back to the spot soon and see if I can confirm that.

 

[CosbyArt]

All of the tubes were hollow and identical, so I decided to cut one open to see if it is hatched. It was! So I'm assuming that all of them are. I'll keep them just in case of course. I'd assume that if my hatched one the tube was open at the end, the nonhatched ones would have the end shut. I'll try and go back to the spot soon and see if I can confirm that.

Too bad. Does make sense that the end would be closed to prevent other insects from climbing in and eating the eggs though.

 

[vulturette]

Too bad. Does make sense that the end would be closed to prevent other insects from climbing in and eating the eggs though.

Dude I am so happy about that though! I didn't want to release the ooth back outside since they apparently don't belong here, but I didn't want to raise those tiny little nymphs and probably kill most accidentally. I've never had an ootheca before, I can't imagine starting with something so ridiculously tiny. Maybe sometime tomorrow I'll post pictures of the inside. So many tiny little chambers.

 

[CosbyArt]

Dude I am so happy about that though! I didn't want to release the ooth back outside since they apparently don't belong here, but I didn't want to raise those tiny little nymphs and probably kill most accidentally. I've never had an ootheca before, I can't imagine starting with something so ridiculously tiny. Maybe sometime tomorrow I'll post pictures of the inside. So many tiny little chambers.

Looking forward to the photos, as it is such a strange ooth.

I can understand the hesitation. I've hatched/incubated eighteen ooths now and no matter what is done many die (that is why they hatch such high number to start with). The typical figure for nymphs that will make it to adulthood is realistically 15%-25% depending on species from the total number that hatch. As I'm no expert, I'd hate to see how many mantid deaths that are tallied against me.

 

[mantiseater]

They actually do belong there they are most likely native if they are a new species

 

[mantiseater]

If not it is still a possibility that they are native

 

[mantisman 230]

The Liturgursa genus is relative new and unstudied, with 19 new species being found in recent years.

 

[vulturette]

Alright well I think I'll start a new topic once either of them molt for the first time (or anything interesting happens) and keep a photo log, etc. Document as much as I can about them. For science! hah.

 

[mantisman 230]

They are already at presub by the wingbuds.

 

[vulturette]

They are already at presub by the wingbuds.

I'm not so sure about that. They are at least one instar apart. And the pictures I shared are of the smallest one, and the bigger one definitely doesn't have wing buds. Looking at them now, it seems like it's just weird patterning on the small one that is in the area for wing buds.

 

[Dracus]

Well, that's a surprise for sure. The mantis in question is definitely Liturgusa, and the northernmost record to date is Mexico for L. maya.

Given that the recent revision of the genus is hardly usable without very hi-end microscopes, I suggest to send the imago (once they appear; and no photos, but the specimens themselves!) directly to Gavin Svenson at Cleveland Museum of Natural History for correct identification.

 

[vulturette]

Well, that's a surprise for sure. The mantis in question is definitely Liturgusa, and the northernmost record to date is Mexico for L. maya.

Given that the recent revision of the genus is hardly usable without very hi-end microscopes, I suggest to send the imago (once they appear; and no photos, but the specimens themselves!) directly to Gavin Svenson at Cleveland Museum of Natural History for correct identification.

It's not just two of them anymore either, I found ten more when I came back to the same spot, including adults and l1s, and lots of hatched ootheca. They seem to be thriving here. I'll certainly consider it, I'd love to have a definite name for them. They are very enjoyable mantids.