My parents run a business selling motorized bicycles, www.bikemotor.com, if ya wanna check it out(super old site my fasha refuses to rework. sorry if it is hard to navigate, for those who care). I was raised into the business and worked there for about 8-9 years. I used to deal with legality issues frequently. I am only gonna talk bikes for a second or two. This is still all 'bout the mantis.
This is what i typically dealt with when a customer had legality issues. There was one big benefit with the bikes. At least there is a clear federal law pertaining to gas powered motorized bikes and mopeds. The law basically states that if it is under 50cc and 2bhp, it is legal to ride on the streets and without a license. So naturally we have some customers who purchase and use these as their primary form of transport because they lost their license (dui, unpaid tickets, etc). Anywho, some customers would call their local DMV or police dept. concerned about legality. Apparently they were told something along the lines of that "they are illegal and you will be ticketed or jailed if seen riding them", sometimes even if they had a drivers license. We even had tickets and a bike being impounded with made up laws cited. Ofcoarse I would eventually receive a call from an upset customer. We spend an hour or so looking for any State laws or ordinances pertaining to the subject and there usually isn't(it then defaults to federal law). Then we call their DMV, sheriff's office, or what have you, and play lawyer for a while. Only a couple times did a city ordinance catch us off guard. Had to take a few returns. Usually we just faxed the federal law to whom it might concern and everything was dropped.
Point is that in my experiences, if you ask the authority figures(especially the ones you fear "coming after you") about the legality of something they know little-nothing about, they will almost always just default to "no it is illegal". If you are genuinely worried about the legality of your mantis, TALK TO A LAWYER. I would think they are most likely to give you an unbiased interpretation of what the laws are. This is one of those cases where the power of your lawyer might be everything. I bet there is even a guy (err... or gal) out there that specializes in this invasive species stuff. I couldn't find them on google tho. :surrender:
I personally am not too worried about non-native/exotic mantis being illegal, at least in the northern states, or where it gets cold. I have seen no laws that state you cannot keep them as pets or even sell them for that matter, except maybe in Florida, and Cali. But please show me otherwize. I don't mean that to be confrontational, just my attention span has yet to allow me time to find anything, and if it's out there I'd like to see it. All I could find is that it is possible they are illegal to ship across state lines(w/o permits), and probably illegal to ship in or out of the country(w/o permits). I just don't see anything sticking in a court if it even ever gets there. And someone would be entitled some reparations. I feel that as long as people are responsible with their pets, I doubt there should be any need for big brother to step in and take them away. I think the mantis hobby is just something the "feds" feel doesn't warrant their attention now. If it ever does I am fairly confident we will be able to keep most of our exotics. Not hard to prove that the vast majority of mantis species couldn't even sustain there numbers in the wild here, or that they wouldn't impact our ecosystem or humans negatively.
And sorry I guess this kinda become a rant. But I just have a problem with assuming something is illegal because of a lack of regulation. That lack of regulation if anything tells me they are legal and just in a "Wild West" stage where until something substantial happens the feds as a whole are just gonna ignore it. And the argument that, "if the feds want to they will bust down your door, they will", is true but I think ludicrous at the same time. Ya its possible but If there is no clear evidence of a law actually being broken, then what are they doing there? and as far as we know there may not even be a law. It just seems like a bunch of scare tactics. Part of living in the Wild Wild West :cowboy:
I think I good with that, but please anyone, try and find something that definitively shows a mantis species being illegal, or a case of someone being arrested for owning or selling a mantis. Just seems like if mantids "might" be illegal, most exotic fish or reptiles could fall in the same boat. I dunno I probably just missed something.
This is what i typically dealt with when a customer had legality issues. There was one big benefit with the bikes. At least there is a clear federal law pertaining to gas powered motorized bikes and mopeds. The law basically states that if it is under 50cc and 2bhp, it is legal to ride on the streets and without a license. So naturally we have some customers who purchase and use these as their primary form of transport because they lost their license (dui, unpaid tickets, etc). Anywho, some customers would call their local DMV or police dept. concerned about legality. Apparently they were told something along the lines of that "they are illegal and you will be ticketed or jailed if seen riding them", sometimes even if they had a drivers license. We even had tickets and a bike being impounded with made up laws cited. Ofcoarse I would eventually receive a call from an upset customer. We spend an hour or so looking for any State laws or ordinances pertaining to the subject and there usually isn't(it then defaults to federal law). Then we call their DMV, sheriff's office, or what have you, and play lawyer for a while. Only a couple times did a city ordinance catch us off guard. Had to take a few returns. Usually we just faxed the federal law to whom it might concern and everything was dropped.
Point is that in my experiences, if you ask the authority figures(especially the ones you fear "coming after you") about the legality of something they know little-nothing about, they will almost always just default to "no it is illegal". If you are genuinely worried about the legality of your mantis, TALK TO A LAWYER. I would think they are most likely to give you an unbiased interpretation of what the laws are. This is one of those cases where the power of your lawyer might be everything. I bet there is even a guy (err... or gal) out there that specializes in this invasive species stuff. I couldn't find them on google tho. :surrender:
I personally am not too worried about non-native/exotic mantis being illegal, at least in the northern states, or where it gets cold. I have seen no laws that state you cannot keep them as pets or even sell them for that matter, except maybe in Florida, and Cali. But please show me otherwize. I don't mean that to be confrontational, just my attention span has yet to allow me time to find anything, and if it's out there I'd like to see it. All I could find is that it is possible they are illegal to ship across state lines(w/o permits), and probably illegal to ship in or out of the country(w/o permits). I just don't see anything sticking in a court if it even ever gets there. And someone would be entitled some reparations. I feel that as long as people are responsible with their pets, I doubt there should be any need for big brother to step in and take them away. I think the mantis hobby is just something the "feds" feel doesn't warrant their attention now. If it ever does I am fairly confident we will be able to keep most of our exotics. Not hard to prove that the vast majority of mantis species couldn't even sustain there numbers in the wild here, or that they wouldn't impact our ecosystem or humans negatively.
And sorry I guess this kinda become a rant. But I just have a problem with assuming something is illegal because of a lack of regulation. That lack of regulation if anything tells me they are legal and just in a "Wild West" stage where until something substantial happens the feds as a whole are just gonna ignore it. And the argument that, "if the feds want to they will bust down your door, they will", is true but I think ludicrous at the same time. Ya its possible but If there is no clear evidence of a law actually being broken, then what are they doing there? and as far as we know there may not even be a law. It just seems like a bunch of scare tactics. Part of living in the Wild Wild West :cowboy:
I think I good with that, but please anyone, try and find something that definitively shows a mantis species being illegal, or a case of someone being arrested for owning or selling a mantis. Just seems like if mantids "might" be illegal, most exotic fish or reptiles could fall in the same boat. I dunno I probably just missed something.
