My prescription for fruit fly culture

[piroxi]

Hello

I have started a new topic, hope its ok.

I would offer you here my really simple method for fruit fly culturing, I have tried out.

It is only the prescription itself, about the temperatures aso. I am shure everyone knows how to handle.

The only things you need are

Fresh baking yeast – here in Germany you can buy it in little blocks for aout 10 cents.

For a glass like on the picture you need one block. Could be about 20 – 30 grams.

Two teaspoons af sugar

100 ml winegar

some cotton wool.

Mix the baking yeast with the sugar. You will see the hard yeast will suddenly become liquid.

Add the winegar to it and mix it.

Put some cotton wool into the container where you will start your fruit fly culture. On the pictures it is a glass with about 350 – 500 milliliter.

And soak the cotton wool with the winegar/yeast mixture.

It should be not too wet – I mean there should be no swimming pool inside of the container.

Then put some fruit flys into it, about 20 are enough.

The result after some weeks – you can see on the pictures.

Thats all.

Could be someone is interested in my prescription. Dont know.

http://i902.photobucket.com/albums/ac227/piroxi/DSCI0059.jpg

http://i902.photobucket.com/albums/ac227/piroxi/DSCI0061.jpg

 

[massaman]

This is a most common method for fruit fly cultures and I use this method with all my fruit fly cultures!

potato flakes

vinegar

water

sugar

 

[piroxi]

This is a most common method for fruit fly cultures and I use this method with all my fruit fly cultures!

Ok. had not known this.

I see there is no need to talk about this method.

Is there a possibility in this forum to erase my topic?

 

[PhilinYuma]

Ok. had not known this.

I see there is no need to talk about this method.

Is there a possibility in this forum to erase my topic?

No need for that! So far as I know, very few folks are culturing fruit flies in this way in the US. Most mantis keepers, and most commercial breeders uses a formula based on a starchy substance like potato flakes, oatmeal or masa flour (a Mexican maize flour). American's use all sorts of extras, like apple sauce, apple slices, molasses, brewer's yeast, animal or vegetable protein (brewer's yeast or soy flour) as well as fermentation products, like vinegar or booze and actively fermenting yeast as you do. The last, unlike the booze and vinegar, provides living organisms on which the maggots can feed.

Scientists use an essentially similar diet here for sterile cultures for lab flies, but they are usually raised in test tubes or vials. Your's seems to be very productive. Do you start again once the pupae have eclosed? Are you capturing wild flies with this attractive solution?

I have used rotting lemons to the same effect, but find that the culture lasts for only one generation, unlike those raised on a starch based substrate.

 

[hibiscusmile]

Yea, no need to erase, all info is good info!

 

[piroxi]

No need for that! So far as I know, very few folks are culturing fruit flies in this way in the US. Most mantis keepers, and most commercial breeders uses a formula based on a starchy substance like potato flakes, oatmeal or masa flour (a Mexican maize flour). American's use all sorts of extras, like apple sauce, apple slices, molasses, brewer's yeast, animal or vegetable protein (brewer's yeast or soy flour) as well as fermentation products, like vinegar or booze and actively fermenting yeast as you do. The last, unlike the booze and vinegar, provides living organisms on which the maggots can feed.

Scientists use an essentially similar diet here for sterile cultures for lab flies, but they are usually raised in test tubes or vials. Your's seems to be very productive. Do you start again once the pupae have eclosed? Are you capturing wild flies with this attractive solution?

I have used rotting lemons to the same effect, but find that the culture lasts for only one generation, unlike those raised on a starch based substrate.

I use this mixture for both drosophila hydei and drosophila melanogaster. I dont use wild cultures. And I start again with a new culture when the pupae have enclosed. In my experience and what I have read here in Germany in the internet, the yeast itself is the main food for drosophila not the for esample the apple juice.

You can also controll the growth by keeping the containers at different temperatures. It is really a big difference by keeping them at about 22 degrees (Celsius) or at 18. And the reason for using winegar is, to avoid the growth of mould. Therefore you can also use chemicals but it is no need for to use both.

More necessary is the humidity of the mixture. Keep it moist not too wet but also not too dry.

Thats only my experience, nothing else.

Others have made other experiences.

 

[PhilinYuma]

Oops!

 

[Rick]

This is a most common method for fruit fly cultures and I use this method with all my fruit fly cultures!

Funny, i've never heard of it.

 

[PhilinYuma]

I use this mixture for both drosophila hydei and drosophila melanogaster. I dont use wild cultures. And I start again with a new culture when the pupae have enclosed. In my experience and what I have read here in Germany in the internet, the yeast itself is the main food for drosophila not the for esample the apple juice.

You can also controll the growth by keeping the containers at different temperatures. It is really a big difference by keeping them at about 22 degrees (Celsius) or at 18. And the reason for using winegar is, to avoid the growth of mould. Therefore you can also use chemicals but it is no need for to use both.

More necessary is the humidity of the mixture. Keep it moist not too wet but also not too dry.

Thats only my experience, nothing else.

Others have made other experiences.

This seems to be an effective and economical way of raising small numbers of fruit flies. I completely agree with your stress on the importance of keeping the medium moist enough; this is even more critical when using a starch substrate like potato flakes or cornmeal. Temperature, of course is also critical for both larval development and pupal ecdesis, but it is worth noting that subjecting larvae to lamps which produce not only heat but radiation in the visible spectrum stresses the larvae, which tend to be photophobic.

Your discussion of the importance of yeast cells as food and of the use of vinegar as a mold inhibitor encapsulates the contradiction at the heart of ff rearing. As a result of your post , I spent some time with my good friend and fungus expert Superfreak at 0200 (2000 her time!) questioning why an agent like vinegar, that lowers the pH drastically -- below the mildly acidic level enjoyed by fungi -- or Paraben or proprionic acid, which presumably break down fungal cell walls, could inhibit fungal growth and not affect yeast, which is itself a fungus.. We concluded that there was no such mechanism, and I confirmed this by "proofing" (c.f.) a mixture of yeast, sugar and water and one of yeast, paraben, sugar and water. Predictably, the former produced a lot of CO2, showing that it was active. The Paraben sample produced a small amount of CO2. and then stopped. Interestingly, the Paraben sample attracted more fruit flies initially, presumably because it released less poisonous CO2 than the live sample. I do not know what effect vinegar has on yeast at the cellular level, but one mechanism posited for Paraben is that it breaks down the cell walls, so the RNA on which larvae are known to feed would still be available.

I do not know whether fruit fly larvae eat apple sauce or not, but the reason for using it is twofold. First, it ferments to cider and acts as an egg laying stimulus in the same way that fermenting banana and other fruits do; secondly, it provides a good bacterial culture medium. Some breeders use apple slices which sit atop the medium where they are less likely to be affected by mold inhibitors. It is worth noting, though, that no labs or professionally made mixes use this medium. While fruit fly larvae no doubt consume both fungal spores and bacteria in the wild, they can be adequately nourished by a completely artificial or even sterile nutriment.

I hope that this is of interest.

 

[piroxi]

This seems to be an effective and economical way of raising small numbers of fruit flies. I completely agree with your stress on the importance of keeping the medium moist enough; this is even more critical when using a starch substrate like potato flakes or cornmeal. Temperature, of course is also critical for both larval development and pupal ecdesis, but it is worth noting that subjecting larvae to lamps which produce not only heat but radiation in the visible spectrum stresses the larvae, which tend to be photophobic.

Your discussion of the importance of yeast cells as food and of the use of vinegar as a mold inhibitor encapsulates the contradiction at the heart of ff rearing. As a result of your post , I spent some time with my good friend and fungus expert Superfreak at 0200 (2000 her time!) questioning why an agent like vinegar, that lowers the pH drastically -- below the mildly acidic level enjoyed by fungi -- or Paraben or proprionic acid, which presumably break down fungal cell walls, could inhibit fungal growth and not affect yeast, which is itself a fungus.. We concluded that there was no such mechanism, and I confirmed this by "proofing" (c.f.) a mixture of yeast, sugar and water and one of yeast, paraben, sugar and water. Predictably, the former produced a lot of CO2, showing that it was active. The Paraben sample produced a small amount of CO2. and then stopped. Interestingly, the Paraben sample attracted more fruit flies initially, presumably because it released less poisonous CO2 than the live sample. I do not know what effect vinegar has on yeast at the cellular level, but one mechanism posited for Paraben is that it breaks down the cell walls, so the RNA on which larvae are known to feed would still be available.

I do not know whether fruit fly larvae eat apple sauce or not, but the reason for using it is twofold. First, it ferments to cider and acts as an egg laying stimulus in the same way that fermenting banana and other fruits do; secondly, it provides a good bacterial culture medium. Some breeders use apple slices which sit atop the medium where they are less likely to be affected by mold inhibitors. It is worth noting, though, that no labs or professionally made mixes use this medium. While fruit fly larvae no doubt consume both fungal spores and bacteria in the wild, they can be adequately nourished by a completely artificial or even sterile nutriment.

I hope that this is of interest.

Hello it is really of interest. And i have allowed me to i will say think about it.

First i hope I have understood you correct. And, could be I am on the wrong way, the forget what I write.

I am not a scientist and I dont have the experience like you and your friend.

With a little experiment you can see that winegar must have an effect on yeast. You can see it on the picture. On the left side the glass was filled with the same amount of liquid (water) sugar, yeast and flower as the one on the right side. As you can see the mixture has produced CO2, so the yeast I will say works. On the right side I have used instead of water winegar. And you see, nearly no reaction.

But in my opinion thats not the problem. The problem – my opinion, ok? – is that on the one side as you wrote you have to avoid the growth of fungals like mould and on the other side you need the groth of fungal spores. As you have written in nature they consume fungal spores and bacterias. And thats why – once again only my opinion – in the most prescriptions you have to use on the one side paraben and on the other side all the things that highers the speed of bacterial groth.

And this could be that my mixture is only good for lets say one or two generations. The winegar, whatever he makes avoids the groth of the yeast. For the flys itself as you have written it doesnt matter if it is a life organism or only a RNA fragment. And after one generation the food is gone.

So the prescription with only yeast, sugar and winegar could may be a good for beginners with less mantids. And may be helpfull for someone who has no paraben.

http://i902.photobucket.com/albums/ac227/piroxi/DSCI0062.jpg

 

[d17oug18]

This is a lot of scientific mumbo jumbo, the 50% that i did understand was worth reading all the way through, fantastic Thread in my book.

 

[ABbuggin]

Never heard of culturing ff's in this manner. I'll have to try it out for fun.

 

[Sparky]

You sir, ARE A GENIUS! I will have to try this out soon. In the way this economy is going. I'm down to try this out.

 

[piroxi]

The prescription itself is from the german internetpage www.froschkeller.de/droso.html

here is the Original in german.

• 2 Würfel (90 g) Backhefe

• 4 Teelöffel Zucker

• 200 ml Obstessig

• Watte

Backhefe und Zucker kneten bis ein dünner Brei entsteht, dann Essig zugeben und in die Zuchtgläser kippen. Soviel Watte zugeben bis die Flüssigkeit aufgesogen ist. R. Wyniger: Insektenzucht. Ulmer Verlag, Stuttgard 1974 Bemerkungen:

• Kosten: ca. 2,50 DM/kg Brei

• Rezept ist absolut idiotensicher - klappt immer

• Kein Antipilzmittel notwendig

• Mit der beschriebenen Hefeflüssigkeit kann die Kultur leicht nachgefüttert werden, man kann sehr gut Vitamine untermischen.

• Gläser sind sehr gut zu reinigen

On the internet page you can find 17 different prescriptions.

 

[PhilinYuma]

First, Piroxi, I am ashamed to admit that in this insular country, the majority of our members cannot read German.

With my limping German, I was able to see that the recipe calls for 3oz of yeast (I see that you get it in "chunks"; we would use about 10 packets), 4 tsp sugar and about 7oz vinegar. I see that they also suggest adding "vitamins", which over here would probably be brewer's yeast.

This is certainly, as you say, an effective and inexpensive way of breeding small numbers of fruit flies, and the prep time is shorter than for media that use corn meal or dehydrated potato. The only issue that is not addressed (so far as I could discover) was that that much vinegar should lower the mixture's pH to a lethal level for the yeast. I discussed this with a friend after one of your earlier posts, and we concluded that while fungi, and certainly yeast, which would otherwise be killed by the carbonic acid that it creates, enjoy a mildly acidic environment, but probably not below pH6, vinegar would still destroy it

From my own very amateur experiments, I have concluded that the acid eats through the cell walls of the yeast (did you know, by the way, that they are made of a substance closer to insect chitin than to plant cellulose?) and releases the DNA within. This stops the yeast from growing, but it is still nutritious for the fly larvae and is an egg laying stimulator.

Thanks for an interesting post, but it does need to be in English!

 

[piroxi]

First, Piroxi, I am ashamed to admit that in this insular country, the majority of our members cannot read German.

With my limping German, I was able to see that the recipe calls for 3oz of yeast (I see that you get it in "chunks"; we would use about 10 packets), 4 tsp sugar and about 7oz vinegar. I see that they also suggest adding "vitamins", which over here would probably be brewer's yeast.

This is certainly, as you say, an effective and inexpensive way of breeding small numbers of fruit flies, and the prep time is shorter than for media that use corn meal or dehydrated potato. The only issue that is not addressed (so far as I could discover) was that that much vinegar should lower the mixture's pH to a lethal level for the yeast. I discussed this with a friend after one of your earlier posts, and we concluded that while fungi, and certainly yeast, which would otherwise be killed by the carbonic acid that it creates, enjoy a mildly acidic environment, but probably not below pH6, vinegar would still destroy it

From my own very amateur experiments, I have concluded that the acid eats through the cell walls of the yeast (did you know, by the way, that they are made of a substance closer to insect chitin than to plant cellulose?) and releases the DNA within. This stops the yeast from growing, but it is still nutritious for the fly larvae and is an egg laying stimulator.

Thanks for an interesting post, but it does need to be in English!

Yes, yes I know it should be in English

The prescription I have written at first was - I would say my own variety of the mixture. And it was for a smaller amount. The vitamins can be brewer yeast.

I have written it only for that no one might thought I was my idea - the mixture.

If someone is interested in, I can try to translate the prescriptions.

And again, I know, German is not the language in here

The only problems I have sometimes is the calculation from gramm or milliliter into ounces.