Native Species to WA, USA

[Jgod]

Hello everyone,

I live in WA state USA and I have a question regarding native species in my area. I know the T. sinensis are non-native and I do not plan on releasing them into the wild. I have read that the S. Carolina species is one of the native species to the USA. Are these type normally released into the wild in the same manner as the T. sinensis?

During the spring i'd like to raise some mantis outdoors on my patio garden area and I'm excited at the idea of re-introducing native species back into the wild.

If you guys have any suggestions or information regarding this I'd really appreciate it.

 

[Ghost_Keeper]

Yes! Please release S. Carolina, we neeed more in the wild.

 

[Goodkoalie]

I also believe that S. califronica is native to Washington state, and that species is becoming less common as native populations and habitats decrease.

 

[Jgod]

Yes! Please release S. Carolina, we neeed more in the wild.

How difficult would it be to raise S. Carolina in captivity? I checked out the care sheet section and didn't see an entry.

Thank you for the reply.

 

[Jgod]

I also believe that S. califronica is native to Washington state, and that species is becoming less common as native populations and habitats decrease.

Where could I verify this species is native? I read about them in the care section and I'll definitely consider these, depending on how readily available the ooths are.

Thank you for your reply.

 

[Rick]

Is S. carolina native to the Pacific northwest? If not please don't release. There are plenty of west coast mantids in the same genus which may be found there but I am not sure.

 

[DeShawn]

Iris Oratoria has spread that far I believe (slowly moving up from CA over the past 80 years). It has been awhile but I think I found a couple in Vancouver, WA. I have also seen them in Oregon, although at the time I was collecting I did not know the difference between S. californica and I. oratoria. They are very similar looking. I found a website that compares them http://bugsafari.blogspot.com/2007/11/2-mantid-abdomen-tips-compared.html if that is of any use to anyone.

 

[Jgod]

Is S. carolina native to the Pacific northwest? If not please don't release. There are plenty of west coast mantids in the same genus which may be found there but I am not sure.

I won't dare release anything I don't know for a fact to be native. Thank you for voicing your concern.

 

[Jgod]

Iris Oratoria has spread that far I believe (slowly moving up from CA over the past 80 years). It has been awhile but I think I found a couple in Vancouver, WA. I have also seen them in Oregon, although at the time I was collecting I did not know the difference between S. californica and I. oratoria. They are very similar looking. I found a website that compares them http://bugsafari.blogspot.com/2007/11/2-mantid-abdomen-tips-compared.html if that is of any use to anyone.

Sweet! I'll check these out as well. Where in Oregon were you collecting?

Thank you for your reply.

 

[DeShawn]

Well, "collecting" mantids in general. I stopped for about 5 years. I found one in Bend on a company trip, and another in Newberg, and I would see one or 2 while gardening every year over the past few years when I lived in Beaverton (recently moved to Salem). I just stumbled across them. I did not find a single one when I actually went looking. My brother in law finds them all the time in Gervais, and found ooths all around his house when he was replacing the siding.

I found a few in Vancouver, WA. I lived in Tacoma for a long time and had never seen a single one (except the ones I released from the garden store ooths).

 

[happy1892]

Hi. Welcome. You might have a couple species in Washington State:

Litaneutria minor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Litaneutria_minor)

Maybe someday Stagmomantis californica will appear in Washington State (they are said to be spreading northward)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stagmomantis_californica

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19970914&slug=2560289

Stagmomantis carolina is probably not native to the west, maybe going as far west as Nebraska or Texas. And are found in Maine I was told by a friend... maybe introduced there. I might have read something about S. carolina being introduced to California, but I can't remember for sure, and don't know if it was a reliable source (misidentified?). I could be getting it mixed up with reading about T. sinensis being in California...

The common ones in Washington State I would guess are Mantis religiosa.

 

[happy1892]

How difficult would it be to raise S. Carolina in captivity? I checked out the care sheet section and didn't see an entry.

Thank you for the reply.

Easy.

Iris Oratoria has spread that far I believe (slowly moving up from CA over the past 80 years). It has been awhile but I think I found a couple in Vancouver, WA. I have also seen them in Oregon, although at the time I was collecting I did not know the difference between S. californica and I. oratoria. They are very similar looking. I found a website that compares them http://bugsafari.blogspot.com/2007/11/2-mantid-abdomen-tips-compared.html if that is of any use to anyone.

Thank you for the information DeShawn!

 

[Jgod]

Well, "collecting" mantids in general. I stopped for about 5 years. I found one in Bend on a company trip, and another in Newberg, and I would see one or 2 while gardening every year over the past few years when I lived in Beaverton (recently moved to Salem). I just stumbled across them. I did not find a single one when I actually went looking. My brother in law finds them all the time in Gervais, and found ooths all around his house when he was replacing the siding.

I found a few in Vancouver, WA. I lived in Tacoma for a long time and had never seen a single one (except the ones I released from the garden store ooths).

Thanks for the information. I've lived in this area for about 10 years and I think I may have seen 3 or 4 mantis. But I haven't intentionally gone out in search of them. I tried a couple days ago to collect ooths in the wild but I think the part I chose sprays and cuts back too often to allow them to nest. I have however seen cracked open ooths in grassy abandoned lots so I might have to go check out those areas.

Hi. Welcome. You might have a couple species in Washington State:

Litaneutria minor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Litaneutria_minor)

Maybe someday Stagmomantis californica will appear in Washington State (they are said to be spreading northward)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stagmomantis_californica

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19970914&slug=2560289

Stagmomantis carolina is probably not native to the west, maybe going as far west as Nebraska or Texas. And are found in Maine I was told by a friend... maybe introduced there. I might have read something about S. carolina being introduced to California, but I can't remember for sure, and don't know if it was a reliable source (misidentified?). I could be getting it mixed up with reading about T. sinensis being in California...

The common ones in Washington State I would guess are Mantis religiosa.

I've read about the ground mantis and while they're really awesome and I'd love to learn more about them, they're more eastern Washington where it's a bit hotter and dryer. Maybe I'll have to go camping out that way and bring a camera and see if I can catch some photos.

Where do you normally verify native species? I've check the Washington agriculture and entomology sites and they speak very generally about mantis as if there is only one species. (I believe most of the images I've seen on their sites are Tenodera sinensis)

I've read that the Mantis religiosa is native to Europe. I cannot give a refutable source for this info unfortunately.

Easy.

Thank you for the information DeShawn!

Thank you. I'm leaning towards S. Carolina but I'll need to do a bit more research.

 

[happy1892]

I've read that the Mantis religiosa is native to Europe. I cannot give a refutable source for this info unfortunately.

Thank you. I'm leaning towards S. Carolina but I'll need to do a bit more research.

I look through pictures posted on the internet and read through some sites.

http://bugguide.net/node/view/22947/data

http://mantodea.speciesfile.org/Common/basic/Taxa.aspx?TaxonNameID=1184170

http://www.degruyter.com/view/j/cszma.2012.61.issue-1/v10210-012-0005-3/v10210-012-0005-3.xml (Yes, Mantis religiosa religiosa lives in Europe among other places, too maybe, like Mexico? would be introduced like US then)

About raising the Carolina mantises:

Don't keep them in the sunlight in containers or they will get roasted to death.

 

[Jgod]

I look through pictures posted on the internet and read through some sites.

http://bugguide.net/node/view/22947/data

http://mantodea.speciesfile.org/Common/basic/Taxa.aspx?TaxonNameID=1184170

http://www.degruyter.com/view/j/cszma.2012.61.issue-1/v10210-012-0005-3/v10210-012-0005-3.xml (Yes, Mantis religiosa religiosa lives in Europe among other places, too maybe, like Mexico? would be introduced like US then)

About raising the Carolina mantises:

Don't keep them in the sunlight in containers or they will get roasted to death.

Thank you for the information and resources.

Thank you for the advice.

 

[Deacon]

This thread has made me curious about releasing mantids. What species of ooths do the garden stores in WA sell? I live in the Fircrest/Tacoma/University Place area.

DeShawn, do you remember what you released in Tacoma ten years ago? Last summer, friends found Mantis religiosa in University Place and up in Packwood. Is it naturalized here or was it just released from a garden store ooth last summer? And if it did come from a garden store, does that mean that some government official decided it was okay to release them in this part of the country?

I realize Mantis religiosa was imported so many years ago that it is the state insect of Conn. but that's a long way from WA. And, just because we find a particular mantis in a given locality, doesn't necessarily mean it is supposed to be there, right?

So, how do we know what is "okay" to release and where? I mean, just because a mantis is on the list of mantids found in the US doesn't mean it can be let go everywhere in the country. Is there a list out there to advise us?

 

[DeShawn]

DeShawn, do you remember what you released in Tacoma ten years ago?

It was Tenodera sinensis purchased from a garden store. I would imagine most garden stores sell whatever comes in bulk, packaged as natural pest control. Most common is T. sinensis (at least from my experience), but S. carolina is another one I have seen. Most are not labeled with the species.

I don't imagine it is regulated too much, unless someone reported it or complained. I am sure the rules are in place, but I just don't see them enforced much. The suppliers/sellers are often oblivious. Many people consider "native" to mean it can be found in the US/North America, which obviously isn't completely accurate, but the average person doesn't give it much more thought than that. The aphids destroying their rose bushes are a more important issue at that time and the young man at the garden store said mantids will get rid of them naturally, so....

"Supposed to be there" is kind of a loose term. Most species we would now consider native were also introduced at some time by humans, however the means. What we consider as "not OK to release" today could be considered native to our children and grandchildren. It is still best practice to never release, to the best of our knowledge, non-native species. If you are finding non-native species in the wild, especially late in the season, there is a good chance they will stick around for awhile and spread.

So, how do we know what is "okay" to release and where? I mean, just because a mantis is on the list of mantids found in the US doesn't mean it can be let go everywhere in the country. Is there a list out there to advise us?

That is a good question. I am not aware of any up-to-date accurate list of native species for each US region. I would say release only what you KNOW to be local. Perhaps we should start a new thread and comprise a list of species we have seen locally in each state (ones we can positively identify). This community is definitely big enough to tackle such a project, and would most likely be more accurate and current than any other list out there. Someone should start it... NOT IT!

 

[Jgod]

This thread has made me curious about releasing mantids. What species of ooths do the garden stores in WA sell? I live in the Fircrest/Tacoma/University Place area.

DeShawn, do you remember what you released in Tacoma ten years ago? Last summer, friends found Mantis religiosa in University Place and up in Packwood. Is it naturalized here or was it just released from a garden store ooth last summer? And if it did come from a garden store, does that mean that some government official decided it was okay to release them in this part of the country?

I realize Mantis religiosa was imported so many years ago that it is the state insect of Conn. but that's a long way from WA. And, just because we find a particular mantis in a given locality, doesn't necessarily mean it is supposed to be there, right?

So, how do we know what is "okay" to release and where? I mean, just because a mantis is on the list of mantids found in the US doesn't mean it can be let go everywhere in the country. Is there a list out there to advise us?

All of the stores I've been to have only sold T. sinensis.

It was Tenodera sinensis purchased from a garden store. I would imagine most garden stores sell whatever comes in bulk, packaged as natural pest control. Most common is T. sinensis (at least from my experience), but S. carolina is another one I have seen. Most are not labeled with the species.

I don't imagine it is regulated too much, unless someone reported it or complained. I am sure the rules are in place, but I just don't see them enforced much. The suppliers/sellers are often oblivious. Many people consider "native" to mean it can be found in the US/North America, which obviously isn't completely accurate, but the average person doesn't give it much more thought than that. The aphids destroying their rose bushes are a more important issue at that time and the young man at the garden store said mantids will get rid of them naturally, so....

"Supposed to be there" is kind of a loose term. Most species we would now consider native were also introduced at some time by humans, however the means. What we consider as "not OK to release" today could be considered native to our children and grandchildren. It is still best practice to never release, to the best of our knowledge, non-native species. If you are finding non-native species in the wild, especially late in the season, there is a good chance they will stick around for awhile and spread.

That is a good question. I am not aware of any up-to-date accurate list of native species for each US region. I would say release only what you KNOW to be local. Perhaps we should start a new thread and comprise a list of species we have seen locally in each state (ones we can positively identify). This community is definitely big enough to tackle such a project, and would most likely be more accurate and current than any other list out there. Someone should start it... NOT IT!

I think starting a new thread to establish what is and isn't native depending upon regions is an excellent idea.

Thank you both for your reply. This is really what got me started thinking about native species. I'd like to raise some in captivity but I would also enjoy knowing that the species I choose can be released in the wild without having negative effects or strong-arming native species.

Thanks again for the replies.

 

[Deacon]

Jgod and DeShawn,

So the Chinese mantids are being sold here---either they fail to thrive in our area or we should be seeing them, right? Haven't run across one in 48 years in Tacoma---not saying they aren't here though.

But, if friends have found the European mantids here (three minutes from my house) and in Packwood, of all places, how have they gotten here? Up the coast from California? I doubt they got here via the Rocky Mtns and Cascade Mtns. Or by human hands?

So, if I were to find a mantis while walking the dog (I always look but never find) would it be okay to release the Chinese or European mantis here in WA?

I only own six species now that can't be released so I don't want to breed them 'cause what would I do with the ooths? Hey, Jgod, are you close to Tacoma? I'd give them to you. PM me if that's a possibility, okay? I've got a couple females ready to erupt, haha.