Newby Q: Not crickets... but what?

[trygon]

Hi all,

I started out by feeding my new orchid mantids some crickets. This was going OK for a while but the male eventually started having stomach problems (liquid poop). I read on the health forum that this is often a problem when feeding only crickets and that other more serious problems can result as well.

So, I have been looking into other options. I have fed them a few flies caught localy and they snatch them up very quickly. The problem is that here in New England flies stop flying around in the winter. In an attempt to remedy this problem I ordered some house fly pupa, which have failed to hatch. To top it all off I live at school, in a dorm, with other people who hate insects (sad I know), so I can't enter into a huge insect breeding program.

Does anyone out there have any suggestions for me. I would really rather not feed crickets if I can avoid it. But right now thats all I have. Do larvae of flying insects work well? I can order waxworms and mealworms. What is best form my orchids in this situation?

Thanks for any suggestions

--Sam

 

[infinity]

Virtually any insect is fine for mantids but I know how you feel- people who live/ have lived with friends, family, relatives all have this problem of what they can get away with...

As for what you technically CAN feed to mantids- everything is fine although there are a few general rules:

-Feed your mantid with something roughly a third of its size when young so a 1cm long nymph can take micro crix and fruit flies...Obviously some will take larger and some won't even take that large- but this is the general accepted size

- Don't give your mantid anything that can fight back - bees, wasps, assassins, spiders etc. I know many people do and many mantids can take these on but it's safer not to. I've had mantids get stung by bees and even had their eyes crushed with the pincer of an earwig so...

- Feed your prey well- healthy prey = healthy mantid! - you can keep the crix in the tub they come in but feed them dandelion/ lettuce leaves to get their moisture up- otherwise they'll eat each other.

Ok, now the general rules are out the way- safe (and by safe I mean what people won't know/ won't care about)...

- micros/ small crix - fine until you get escapees

- fruitflies - again fine if you can dispense easily- although some 'learn how to fly' after a while so you won't be popular once that happens...

- waxmoths - clean, not messy, smell fine- only problem- very fatty for a mantis... although my very first mantis was fed to adult on only these so not too bad. - easy to culture to get various sizes of larvae but does take a bit of prep work

- locusts - good food, but hard to rear (need high heat and plenty of fresh food - only hazards are that they can kick pretty hard

- mealworms - not really suited to mantids. They're nutritionally high but mantids can't easily get ahold of them- unless you want to hand feed and crush them every time- not recommended.

- flour beetles (same as mealworms)

- ants - find if you don't mind picking out the castes from them (i.e. not soldiers for hatchlings)

If anyone can think of other things- feel free to add to the list!

If you make your own (non-smelly) media- I think fruit flies are the best

-put a load of mashed potato mix with some yeast (10:1 ratio is fine) in a lemonade pottle- add 20 or so NON FLYING flies and you have a handy container, easy nozzle to get them from and the smell is minimalized.

-everyone has their preferences

 

[trygon]

Thanks for the great reply! It will help me start figuring out what to do.

I have some questions I would like to stress though...

-- Why do many sources discurage an all cricket diet, even if the crickets are in good shape? I have read that orchid mantids in particular benefit from non-cricket foods and more specificaly flying foods.

-- Do the larvae of flying insects offer the same nutrition as the adults?

-- Also, why might my house flies have failed? The pupa I ordered have been in a ventalated container for four days now with no action! is this a common occurance? bumb fly batches?

Again, thanks in advance for any information

-Sam

 

[Rick]

I feed most mantids nothing but crickets and rarely have problems. As long as you feed your crickets a good diet you should be ok. That problem you have happens to me about once or twice a year. But some mantids like orchids just do better with things like flys and moths.

 

[infinity]

Personally, I can't see any problems with all cricket diets like Rick said - protein is protein, fat is fat and water is water so whether you get different amounts from different sources shouldn't matter. Although it could be a vitamin, mineral and *omega 3 oil* type thing- perhaps some insects have special nutrients- but hey, we'll never know!

Larvae do have the same protein content etc as adults as there is no excretion in the pupa until after the larva has emerged.- although fat levels will differ as energy is needed during metamorphosis (which will use the fat reserves up. Obviously the exact amino acid amounts will change too as there will be some conversion between them

As for the housefly question - these have ALWAYS been a problem for me *coughs* livefoods-something-or-ther website... They never hatch for me either! They like to be kept quite moist and well, obviously some batches can be duds due to shipping temperatures etc so... these have been complained about loads- just don't buy them again.

 

[Rick]

I get fly larva from grubco and have always been happy with them. They always pupate into flies with no problems.

 

[trygon]

Thanks a lot guys, this is all very helpful.

I'm not quite so afraid of crickets anymore for one thing.

If I do continue using the crickets... any suggestions on what to feed them? I have read that a lettuce and especially carrot cricket diet can hurt mantids... or at least give them more stomach problems. How about some good ole fashioned dog food?

Thanks again,

-Sam

 

[Rick]

Thanks a lot guys, this is all very helpful. I'm not quite so afraid of crickets anymore for one thing.

If I do continue using the crickets... any suggestions on what to feed them? I have read that a lettuce and especially carrot cricket diet can hurt mantids... or at least give them more stomach problems. How about some good ole fashioned dog food?

Thanks again,

-Sam

I feed mine cat food, fish food flakes, etc. Sometimes they get leafy greens like romaine or red leaf lettuce. Plain old iceburg lettuce has little to no nutrients.

 

[infinity]

Plain old iceburg lettuce has little to no nutrients

But if you're keeping them in the cricket tubs- it's useful for giving them back the moisture they require without spraying and having the food go mouldy...

 

[wuwu]

I get fly larva from grubco and have always been happy with them. They always pupate into flies with no problems.

that's what i thought, until this last batch that i got. none of the maggots pupated and most seem to be dying now. do you just leave them in the airtight containers they come in? or do you switch them into a ventilated container? because all the other times, i've just left them in the containers they came in to pupate and i had no problems but yen told me he moves them into ventilated containers. so i'm just curious what other people do.

 

[Rick]

I get fly larva from grubco and have always been happy with them. They always pupate into flies with no problems.

that's what i thought, until this last batch that i got. none of the maggots pupated and most seem to be dying now. do you just leave them in the airtight containers they come in? or do you switch them into a ventilated container? because all the other times, i've just left them in the containers they came in to pupate and i had no problems but yen told me he moves them into ventilated containers. so i'm just curious what other people do.

I leave them in the containers they come in in my fridge. I take out what I need and put them into 32 oz deli cups to pupate.

 

[Rick]

Plain old iceburg lettuce has little to no nutrients

But if you're keeping them in the cricket tubs- it's useful for giving them back the moisture they require without spraying and having the food go mouldy...

It will work for that but I use a small water dish with rocks for that. I also put a layer of plain oatmeal about an inch thick in there and they eat that too.