Parasphendale agrionina vs affinis

[mantisman 230]

I've been wondering what the difference between these two species is. As my male budwing died and I'm not sure which of the two they are.

 

[Orin]

I don't think affinis has been around in more than ten years. The easiest way on female's is the underside of the affinis tegmen is solid black.

 

[LAME]

I've now owned both... One's just smaller.

 

[ethanblaze1017]

Here's a side by side photo. L4 Agrionina on the left. L5 affinis on the right. Agrionina are lighter colored, while affinis tend to be darker. Affinis are also much smaller.

 

[ethanblaze1017]

Here:

 

[MantidBro]

Here:

I thought it was the other way around, that agrionina are the darker ones? Where'd you get your info? Sorry for being difficult, lol, I'm just curious.

 

[ethanblaze1017]

The darker ones (affinis) were sold to me by davedood on the forum. Lighter ones (Agrionina ) were sold to me by mantismonarch on the forum. My experience has always been the same with these species. And no dude you're not being difficult, I don't mind the questioning at all lol

 

[MantidBro]

The darker ones (affinis) were sold to me by davedood on the forum. Lighter ones (Agrionina ) were sold to me by mantismonarch on the forum. My experience has always been the same with these species. And no dude you're not being difficult, I don't mind the questioning at all lol

Oh okay, thanks! That's interesting, I was told the complete opposite, so I'm all messed up lol.

 

[mantisman 230]

Hmm, well mine have tended to be lighter, so agrionina makes sense.

 

[hibiscusmile]

:taz: I was supposed to be looking for the two different ooths and haven't gotten around to it yet. sorry

 

[mantisman 230]

Haha dont worry, anyways I can get myself a few males for them xD.

 

[Deacon]

I recently rcvd a couple of these---if the above photos are correct, they are P. affinis as they are very dark brown---I had assumed they were P. agrionina since Orin mentioned in his book he hadn't seen affinis for ten years. Oh, well. When they arrived, they were L4-L5 (like which is it?) and have since molted two weeks ago. They stopped eating hydei so I gave them meal moths that erupted in the squirrels' hazelnuts! I hope I've caught the last one of those! So, now they won't eat (3 days) and I have assumed they were going to molt again since they were eating before. Now I'm not sure. Do they typically molt every two week or so?

What is an appropriate food? I have both FF sizes but they are not thrilled. Meal moths are gone. The male did grab a 1/2 inch cricket last weekend and munched for an hour but the fem. bats them away (even with the legs pulled off and the neck broken.) But I hate to leave crickets with them if they're about to molt again. I have wax worm moths but they are bigger than the mantids. And I have Dubia roaches, tiniest about 1/4 inch but she freaked out when I put one in her cup. What about young sowbugs? It rattles me that they stopped eating.

There isn't a care sheet on these so what is your advice?

Thanks, Nancy

 

[MantidBro]

I recently rcvd a couple of these---if the above photos are correct, they are P. affinis as they are very dark brown---I had assumed they were P. agrionina since Orin mentioned in his book he hadn't seen affinis for ten years. Oh, well. When they arrived, they were L4-L5 (like which is it?) and have since molted two weeks ago. They stopped eating hydei so I gave them meal moths that erupted in the squirrels' hazelnuts! I hope I've caught the last one of those! So, now they won't eat (3 days) and I have assumed they were going to molt again since they were eating before. Now I'm not sure. Do they typically molt every two week or so?

What is an appropriate food? I have both FF sizes but they are not thrilled. Meal moths are gone. The male did grab a 1/2 inch cricket last weekend and munched for an hour but the fem. bats them away (even with the legs pulled off and the neck broken.) But I hate to leave crickets with them if they're about to molt again. I have wax worm moths but they are bigger than the mantids. And I have Dubia roaches, tiniest about 1/4 inch but she freaked out when I put one in her cup. What about young sowbugs? It rattles me that they stopped eating.

There isn't a care sheet on these so what is your advice?

Thanks, Nancy

It may sound gross but if you can cut a prey item into tiny pieces they won't be as scared. You can rest it on their mouth and then they will realize its food and take a hold of it. I used a needle rather than tongs because tongs are too big and get in the way.

 

[Rick]

I know devetaki (sp?) has both species.

 

[Deacon]

MantidBro,

Update: She molted this morning! Yay! I'm possibly a worry wart :blush:

Thanks for the feeding idea. Yes, it does sound gross, certainly beyond the breaking necks and yanking off legs that I have done! Hopefully she will get an appetite soon and I'll try "stirring" her food (I have been using a blunted toothpick but I'll try a needle.)

When I got her she was "L4-L5" so with these two molts, she'd be an L6-L7. Still so tiny! What is the biggest item they will take (whole) as an adult???

Oh, and I got these from MikhailsDinos.

Thanks, Nancy

 

[MantidBro]

MantidBro,

Update: She molted this morning! Yay! I'm possibly a worry wart :blush:

Thanks for the feeding idea. Yes, it does sound gross, certainly beyond the breaking necks and yanking off legs that I have done! Hopefully she will get an appetite soon and I'll try "stirring" her food (I have been using a blunted toothpick but I'll try a needle.)

When I got her she was "L4-L5" so with these two molts, she'd be an L6-L7. Still so tiny! What is the biggest item they will take (whole) as an adult???

Oh, and I got these from MikhailsDinos.

Thanks, Nancy

Oh so thats why she wasnt eating, thats good! phew! lol. Not sure if you know yet, but after she molts she may not eat for a few days too. A toothpick is probably just as good but im not sure, lemme know which works better! Mine would take anything LOL they were aggressive, hungry girls!! Earth worms, salamanders, etc. I had the dark species too, I thought they were agrionina, I'm kinda messed up now lol.

 

[Deacon]

She ate a BB fly today---I had to hand it to her after I messed it up a bit...but it works. Thanks! Salamanders??? I take it yours was an adult? Even if mine is possibly an L6 now, she is still so dainty and fragile looking! There is a photo of a pair of affinis in Orin's book--they look much sturdier than mine does so she's got some growing to do. She is also very dark brown. I got out a magnifying glass today and realized they have a pretty shape to their thorax.

Thanks for your suggestion. (Still getting a chuckle over the honey and dubias....)

Nancy

 

[MantidBro]

She ate a BB fly today---I had to hand it to her after I messed it up a bit...but it works. Thanks! Salamanders??? I take it yours was an adult? Even if mine is possibly an L6 now, she is still so dainty and fragile looking! There is a photo of a pair of affinis in Orin's book--they look much sturdier than mine does so she's got some growing to do. She is also very dark brown. I got out a magnifying glass today and realized they have a pretty shape to their thorax.

Thanks for your suggestion. (Still getting a chuckle over the honey and dubias....)

Nancy

Nice!

Yes they were adults at that time. So if at L6, that means your girl had five molts, meaning she has got four more to go! They are a very pretty species.

You're welcome, and haha

 

[mantisman 230]

One of my ladies hit adult this last week, and gladly slaughters the largest crickets I have. But not as violent as my adult female extensicollis