Phil's Phamous Entomological Explanations

[PhilinYuma]

I've thought about starting a thread that deals with some of the questions that we mantis keepers often ask: Is gut loading a good idea? Why does a nymph molt? What part of a mantis is the crop? and the like.

My answers would be Wikipediaish in style, simply quoting non controversial views (unless stated otherwise) of published experts. It would also contain on line and textual references.

I thought that I would start with nutrition if people are interested. I'm not proud, so if three members express an interest, I'll write up a post (it will be longer than most other topics, I fear), but if less than three are interested, I'll save time and space by letting it go by.

A nutritional post would deal mostly with the types of food required by mantis prey larvae, and something on adult insect requirements.

Let me know what you think, and if you are interested in a particular aspect of what makes mantids tick, please add that too.

 

[sbugir]

 

[JayzunBoget]

This sounds like an awesome idea. I , for one, tend to be better able to learn all of the idiosyncratic little "what to do"s of specific exotic creature keeping if I can learn the "why"s along with them.

I'll better understand and remember things like E. pennata faring poorly on a cricket diet if I know what the issue is, nutritionally speeking.

I hope many people show an interest in your proposed thread. I would like to see what becomes of it.

 

[ismart]

I think this is a great idear phil. Please go through with it.

 

[hibiscusmile]

Ditto, and hey to Jazbun, I think I can successfully remove your head from that thing that ate you, it will be a bit painful and you may have to live on a stick or something like that, but it would probably be better than how u r living now. Give me a ring if u need me :tt2:

 

[kookamonga]

Sign me up!

 

[Katnapper]

I think it's a great idea, Phil!

I'd love to find out more about mantid's nutritional requirements, and similar aspects of recommended (or not) feeding issues! You do all the work researching

, conjoined with the substantial amount of information you already know... and I'm sure lots of us would be grateful for the resulting assemblage of information.

 

[revmdn]

What's a crop?

 

[hibiscusmile]

I am just guessing, as some on here already know, but from what I read from Kats last question and poll, I tend to believe it is the secret place where a mantis food goes while being digested!

oh and Phil, I 'll say it for you,,,,, google is our friend! but we rather u tell us! :tt2:

 

[PhilinYuma]

What's a crop?

A short horsewhip without a lash.

 

[Katnapper]

What's a crop?

Corn, beans, wheat, rice, sunflowers, cotton, etc....

Here is a good explanation... about 2/3rds of the way down the page. (Plus some very interesting and educational information about other parts of insect anatomy.

 

[hibiscusmile]

haha, stupid farmers! stupid city folk

 

[revmdn]

:lol:

 

[PhilinYuma]

The Science Behind Making Larval Food Media

Recently, I passed on some wrong information about using flax seed oil and carotene in housefly larval media. This is my penance.

Insect nutritionists tend to raise insects on one of three kinds of diet, "natural", for those who like to compare

the benefits of cow, swine and goat dung, sterile, when studying specific nutritional components free from

contaminants like bacteria, which have considerable food value, at the cost of adult size and fecundity, and artificial diets, like the veteran CSMA diet,

Gainesville housefly diet, Purina rodent chow (!) and our own dog food/cat food concoction which most closely

resembles the Rodent chow. It is useful to recognize the difference if you are reading an article on the subject.

The purpose of a good artificial diet, unlike a sterile one, is to produce the most and largest adult insects possible.

There is no "ideal" insect diet for at least two reasons. Researchers in the '60s suggested that dipterans

(two winged flies of all sorts) will adapt to a given food over a few generations to optimize fecundity (urge to merge), and

insects cheat, to put it bluntly, by using one nutrient to "spare" or substitute for another, though this ability is limited.

Culture media that will do a good job of nourishing fly larvae will not always stimulate the fly to lay eggs on it.

This point is made by Orin in his fruit fly sticky, and it applies equally to house and flesh flies. Houseflies will not

lay eggs in a fruit fly culture, but housefly eggs/maggots will thrive on a ff medium, usually with cellulose – wood

shavings or sawdust –added. Such a mixture is the basis for Carolina's HF medium. Flesh flies, blue bottles and

the like will thrive in a housefly medium, but the females will not lay in it and need rotting flesh. Pulverized liver

is a good but very smelly laying medium and can be washed away and replaced with a standard medium once maggots appear.

NecessaryNutrients

Ribobonucleic acid, the poor cousin of DNA, but still with the double helix and the four nucleotide bases that

we all know and love. Each combination of three of these four bases (you have forgotten them? thymine-adenine

and guanine-cytosine) is called a DNA codone. So there are 60 possible combinations, but only twenty make the cut as amino acids and only eight of those are "essential" as described below. What is a great source of RNA? Baker's

"active' yeast cells, the kind that you get inthose little foil packets and sprinkle on your ff medium. Once yeast

begins to ferment, fed by ordinary sugar, it produces millions of living cells full of RNA, and the fly maggots eat

the cells, RNA and all. But Orins' flies thrive because , though RNA is a valuable growth promoter, it is not irreplaceable and can be "spared" by a mixture of guanine, adenine and cytosine from other sources (i.e. I have no idea where, but they seem to find it).

Amino acids. Lots of them. Nutritionists talk about "essential amino acids". They are not the only amino acids that

an animal requires; they are those that the animal cannot make (synthesize), in its own body. There are eight or

ten essential amino acids for insects depending on who is keeping score. Happily, they are all found in several

kinds of easily available foods, brewer's yeast and any kind of animal or vegetable (first or second class) protein, such as casein or soy.

B complex vitamins. Seven of them, but not vitaminB12. By a happy chance they are all found in brewer's yeast, though B12, essential for mammals, is probably not essential for insects, certainly not their growth. Fatty acids, unsaturated and saturated, may be of importance, in some insects. Lineolicacid is essential in man, and plays an active role in the pupation of some Lepidoptera, but seems to be of little importance in fly development. This is unfortunate for Katt and me who are awash in flax seed oil.

Sterols, of which the best known in human dietetics is cholesterol, are vital for insects as an important

component of cellular membranes, as precursors for many hormones (e.g.20-OH ecdysone, the Insect Sex

Drug) and for regulating genes involved in developmental processes. That said, the vegetable sources of

sterols do not include potatoes, our basic fly substrate. They are found in baker's yeast, though, another

reason for using this fungus, and for Katt and me, in flax oil. (While preparing

this, I read a very short paper

on phytosterols by Spence Behmer. He cited seven articles in his bib. list, all by Spence Behmer; obviously

the go-to guy on this topic!)

Fat soluble vitamins. A,E, K, are used by insects but really don't concern us here. Foranyone who would

like to learn more about sterols and fat soluble vitamins as they apply to insects, I warmly recommend "Fat

Metabolism in Insects" by Lilian E. Canavoso: http://aedes.biosci....pers/ref161.pdf .It's rather

long, but directed at a non-technical audience, very interesting (and free!).

Minerals Although sterile diets, in particular, use proprietary "salts" to provide minerals, I have no idea what

they are, and larval growth seems to progress well with what ever traces are in the various food components.

I realize that this is hugely long by our posting standards, but it is a huge and fascinating subject. All this stuff

will be put to use when I do the next exciting post on rearing houseflies. All questions, disagreements and corrections are as welcome here as on any thread.

 

[hibiscusmile]

I got thru two, count them 2 sentences Phil and went blind

! I cannot read all that stuff, I am to old and afraid I will not live thru it!

ps, just cause u made a mistake, we should not have to suffer for it too

 

[hibiscusmile]

P s s : can I change my poll

 

[PhilinYuma]

O.K. It's time that someone outed you, Rebecca. To the best of my knowledge, folks, there is only one person who uses all of the nutrients mentioned in my discussion, and it isn't me. Yep it's "Wow, what a coincidence. How did I get that right, ha,ha" Hibiscusmile who is the only person that I know of who is using brewer's yeast and casein in her ff medium.

By a "pure coincidence" she sent me some brewer's yeast with a regular order, which I opened an hour ago. I'll add the yeast and some casein that I have ordered, set up cubes with a measured number of flies and the basic and "improved" mixes, count the number of flies that hatch, demonstrate (I'm pretty sure!) that the "improved" medium is better than the original, and someone will say, "Haha! Who would have guessed?

"

 

[hibiscusmile]

OH! That's gonna leave a mark!

 

[Rick]

That's it? I was expecting a novel. You're letting me down Phil.