Phyllocrania paradoxa colour change

[deanola]

I know there has been a lot of talk about colour morphs in mantises and different conditions causing colour morph, i keep 16 ghosts in one large terrarium so all experience the same conditions,

just observing yesterday, i noticed that one of the large individuals has turned green while the others of the same age ahve all remained their brown selves, is their any explanation to this change?

it wasnt something i was looking to do or experimentin with and so has kind of taken me by suprise. just wondering if anyone can explain the reason for this if you have any experience

 

[chun]

Even if you keep 16 nymphs in one large terrarium there will always be a micro-gradient, meaning that there will always be a difference in temperature, humidity and light intensity, unlesss sophisticated instruments were used to ensure that the conditions remained constant. For example, if a real plant was placed within the terrarium, this will cause a fluctuation in humidity due to evapotranspiration, so the underside of the leaves will have a higher humidity percentage. Subsequently, the underside of a leaf has a shading effect, thus affecting light intensity which leads to fluctuation in temperature ( lower temperature). Phyllocrania tends to turn green when subjected to low light intensity, high humidity and relatively low temperature. Heat lamps can also greatly affect the micro-climate, as areas close to the source of heat will clearly be warmer, but also more arid (less humid).

I remember one of friend hatching 4 Sphodromantis centralis oothecae in one terrarium and as a result of micro-gradient/micro-climate within the terrarium (use of live plants and heat lamps), the nymphs in the enclousre varied greatly in colours!

I hope this helps

 

[Johnald Chaffinch]

arent the older females usually green? so possibly means you've only got one female. (edit: my female paradoxa developed faster than the males, which is strange :s ).

 

[deanola]

I understand what your saying chun but the mantises never remain in one place long enough for the microclimatic changes to effect them so extremely within their terrarium,

i dont use live plants, have false plants and lots of sticks creating a varied environment, i have one strip light above the tank, my room is warm all the time because of several heat mats, and several ligts for mantises, tortoises etc..

i've never kept Phyllocrania before though i have seen green adults so you could be right johnald, i've had my own opinions regarding colour morphs which i've expressed on other forums aswell, though i didnt expect this,

just thinking though, this specimen was a lighter colour brown when i recieved the mantises, im not sure, would like some more opinions though..

Dean..

 

[chun]

Mantids do move around from time to time, but they normally remain pretty stationary prior to moulting. Also Phyllocrania tends to remain quite stationary anyway. If you keep a mantid at X temperature and X humidity for a while, then changing it a few days before its moult, eg increasing humidity can influence the colour of the post-moult larvae quite dramatically. Phyllocrania are relatiely small, so in proportion, a small temperature change or a small humdiity change can be detected, even if we can not.

The false foliage and sticks affects the tmeperature gradient by providing shade from the source of heat eg heat lamps. Temperature affects the humidity. Even if your room is warm, the temperature still varies within different areas of the enclosure.

Males always develop quicker than females as a rule, as they generally have less moults than females. Females can be a shade of black, brown and green, while males tend to only be light brown when adult.

 

[Johnald Chaffinch]

Males always develop quicker than females as a rule, as they generally have less moults than females. Females can be a shade of black, brown and green, while males tend to only be light brown when adult.

okay, is just strange to me because i had 3 Phyllocrania all from the same batch and the female developed super fast compared to the 2 males. the males had less moults but spaced out between longer periods.

also, they all started off brown but the female went green when it hit sub-adult, the males remained the same colour. they where all in the same conditions too.

if you have so many of the same species it should be pretty easy to tell if there's a different overall shape to the green one from the rest, check out the differences between sexes in pics on this forum.

what stage of development are they at?

 

[julian camilo]

im not sure if the conditions within one enclosure can change drastically enough to influence colour diversity such as light green against dark brown. ok so maybe there can be minor differences in one corner of the container to another area, but i would think if this influences the colour of the mantids, that their colour would only change a small amount.

how big is the container? whats the ventilation like? how is it heated? i would think that the temperature within would only change about a degree or so either way. well obviously if its heated with a heat lamp pointed at one end of the container then this will have a larger gradient than say a heat mat running underneath the whole thing.

part of me thinks the gradient is not large enough to influence such diversity in colour, but then part of me thinks p.paradoxa tends not to be very active so within an instar it may experience quite different conditions. i really dont know.

 

[Johnald Chaffinch]

isnt it just that one of them is female?

 

[julian camilo]

possibly. i was talking more about mantids coming out different colours when kept in "identical" conditions. but with regards to this, you say it is older than the others, so yeh it might just be female starting to turn green like they sometimes do, and the others might be a mixture of males and females that are at the age when theyre still dark no matter what.

 

[deanola]

i keep them in an exo terra 45x45x45, my room is kept at about 24 degrees during daytime and 21 at night! they have a fluroscent light above their tank, lots of branches and a couple of flase plants, however most seem to hagn around one plant in particular in the top of the tank. a mixture of fine bark and soil on the bottom to aid humidity,

i have 3 L7, 3 L6 and 10 L4 though in the larger mantises, i can see different variations in colour between individuals!

i have always had my own view about colour morphs when kept under different conditions such as humidity causing biological triggers within individuals, but with this setup, i just cant see it,

 

[Johnald Chaffinch]

is it possible to make a gongylus gongylode green? if so how?

do all your ghosts live happily together? i've heard it can be risky after about the 4th shed or thereabouts, dont know if it's true.

 

[deanola]

well, i hae sub adults, and relatively young all mixed and havent had any losses, you can actually see them communicate with each other using their abdomens! with a large terrariums, you also give them the opportunity to spread oujt though they dont really, and keep them well fed, i think that maybe the key!

 

[ellroy]

you can actually see them communicate with each other using their abdomens!

Hi Deanola,

What do you mean?

Alan

 

[wuwu]

i saw that in the 1 hour special tv show about mantids they showed on the Discovery Channel too. some mantises communicate with each other through movement to tell each other that they are another mantis.

 

[deanola]

they actually turn and face each other, both then flash their abdomens, i have sen them do a threat display and this is not a threat,

they take it in turns, one waves their abdomen, then the other, and then both walk away. i think it probably is a method of informing the other that both are mantises.

 

[jonpat83]

I see that quite a lot with creobroter and pseudocreobotra sp. They wave the eye like markings on their abdomen and it seems to neutralise any disputes that may occur.

I've noticed ghosts do it to prey items that are too large for them aswell as others of there own kind.