Praying Mantis for indoor grow rooms

[knucklemonkey]

Hello all. I'm happy I found this place as I was looking for some intelligent folks on an issue I know little of. Nice to meet you all...the name is knucklemonkey.

So I buy 4 oothecas off of amazon.com. I'm very organic and want to have a natural pesticide. What better way than with predatory bugs, right? I have 2 grow rooms, each 48" x 48" and 75" tall. The temperature is between 70 and 82 when the lights are on with humidity around 40-55%. Both grow boxes have exhaust fans and are mostly airtight with the exception of the intake flaps that have screens over them so I don't have any pests outside of the gardens, just inside.

I get white flies and all sorts of damaging pests and I hear mantids eat everything that moves. I also am trying ladybugs but would far prefer the mantids work out as my pest control system.

I'm wondering a few things...

1. By the picture attached, can you tell me what kind of praying mantis I have bought and if they are the right kind?

2. Will I run into any unforseen problems having them in the room? How many mantids should I keep in each room with, say 20 plants in each room, (some of which reach the 75 inch roof, some are only a foot or so off the ground, all are in pots)?

3. Will I need to introduce some sort of food for them? I wouldn't be able to use anything that would harm my garden or my plants so that complicates things if I need to introduce live food at some point. The original idea was to get them to eliminate pests but I dig the idea of raising them in there too.

4. How long will it take the ootheca to hatch if my lights are on 18 and off 6 and the temps range from 70-82 degrees?

I am very committed to my indoor garden and the quality of my vegetables and flowers. I very much enjoy nurturing my garden and would love to nurture a praying mantis or 20 (I have no idea how many I need).

So some advice and whatnot would be greatly appreciated. And nice to meet you all!

 

[bassist]

Definitely T. sinensis common chinese mantis you don't need that many ootheca for that many plants though after a while if you do keep them in there they'll eat each other.

 

[knucklemonkey]

Definitely T. sinensis common chinese mantis you don't need that many ootheca for that many plants though after a while if you do keep them in there they'll eat each other.

It came with 4 ootheca, so I took three of them outside and used twisty ties to attach them to the underside of a few rose branches throughout the property. Only one ootheca did I keep and place in the rose/vegetable grow box. My thinking is that I can populate the outdoors with mantids (we have a lot of bugs around here but I've only seen one praying mantis). In the meantime I want to keep some in the grow boxes as "pets" and pesticide. Plants like helpful insects and it adds personality to my garden.

So I'm learning here and would love to grow my garden into a mantid hobby. Any idea on my other questions though? Thanks!

 

[Katnapper]

Hi there Knucklemonkey. I like your idea of mantids for the grow rooms very much. I think they would add "personality" to your gardens!

The oothecae you have are Tenodera sinensis (Chinese mantis), and are a fine choice.

Most mantids, including the Chinese, are cannibalistic and won't hesitate to make a meal out of another one... with or without plenty of other food sources. I'm not sure how many exactly each of your rooms would sustain. But I would think it would be possible to have several in each (at least) until their adult stage. The younger and smaller they are, the more each room could probably have... and through time they will eventually eat each other until their numbers reach a sustainable level for the one, or ones, who are left. I'd put one ooth in each, let them hatch out in there, and let them take it from there. I think it's something you'll just have to try and see what happens.

Keep in mind that the lower the available food sources (pests), the lower your mantis population will be. And as the mantids grow, things like aphids or other smaller type flies and such won't be appropriate in size for them any more. I don't know whether or not you would have to eventually introduce other prey items. It would depend on how many naturally occurring ones prove to inhabit the rooms. But it's certainly not out of the question that you may, especially when they reach the larger sizes. If there are only a few in each room when they reach adulthood, you could hand feed them, eliminating the need for releasing additional insects into your rooms.

It could take up to 2 months, depending on when it was laid, or if it was previously put into diapause before you got it, and how long it has been at normal or warmer temps.

Mantids need moisture to drink, but your watering the plants should cover that. The only other concern I'd have is the exhaust fans. I'm thinking shredded mantids if they wander too close. They are a mostly sedentary creature though, and with most of their available food sources on the plants, if they are content and not starving they won't be moving around searching for food as much.

 

[hibiscusmile]

The ooth if it hatches in there is fine, only dead mantis will stink, I dont know how much that will matter though, I am assumming since it is inside that u will only get small insects in there, like aphids and such, so in time u will need to release flies to keep them fed, so u will want to consider having larger food for them as they grow, so the chinese is ok, but if the insects u will want to be rid of are small, then go with a smaller species like the boxer or tiawan or anything that will stay small, instead of the larger species.

 

[Rick]

Their value as a beneficial insect is debatable as they will eat most any insects. Just put a couple ooths in your grow rooms and let nature take its course. You might end up with a few survivors.

 

[chun]

mantids will be relatively useless if you want to tackle whitefly problems. Whitefly nymphs are sessile and only the adults fly, as mantids will only ignore the nymphs. Other predators such as lacewings (Neuroptera), ladybirds, predatory bugs or parasitoids will be alot more effective. Whiteflies are unsuitable prey for mantids due to their low protein and (very) high sugar content. Mantids are also generalist predators, so they will also attack other beneficial insects such as the pollenators and predators/parasitoids.

One last thing, you need a LARGE population of aphids/whiteflies to sustain a small population of ladybirds in your grow room.

Hope i havent put you off introducing mantids to your growhouse, by all means do it, as mantids are spectacular insects.

 

[dafke14]

I agree with hibiscussmile: Ephestiasula pictipes etc. would be better they search/hunt for preys.

They are verry small when they hatch, so are better for your problem, and they are adult within 3 months.

(pm me if you need some)

i have about 20 ooths lol

 

[knucklemonkey]

The only other concern I'd have is the exhaust fans. I'm thinking shredded mantids if they wander too close. They are a mostly sedentary creature though, and with most of their available food sources on the plants, if they are content and not starving they won't be moving around searching for food as much.

I put screens over the exhaust fans so no critters get shot out into the house. I covered all of the bases I could think of.

The more I read and look around the more I think I'd like to raise some mantids as a permanent feature in the grow rooms. Instead of keeping them in a jar or whatever they'd have normally been kept in. The grow boxes are in my house though so I want to avoid flying pests getting into the main living area. Perhaps mealworms or something would be a solution as they got larger.

I see a few little bugs flying in there from time to time. A small gnat-like bug among the white flies and the aphids. Now the ladybugs are working full force in there for the time being. It's like an aquarium....very relaxing to just sit and watch.

Thank you all for your responses! I had no idea there was a mantid community, much less such a helpful one!

 

[ABbuggin]

IMO you want lady bugs for you white fly problem.....mantids will quickly out grow them in a matter of 2 weeks. If you have enough white flies/larvae, your lady bugs will breed (very fun to observe).

 

[hibiscusmile]

:lol: see a few little bugs flying in there from time to time. A small gnat-like bug among the white flies and the aphids. Now the ladybugs are working full force in there for the time being. It's like an aquarium....very relaxing to just sit and watch.

:lol: I used to think aquarium fun too, I got Orandas, and they were as cute as anything I ever had, the 3 I started with looked like the Flintstone caracters, don't ask me why I thought that, I just did, they had delicate hats on their heads and my fav named Pebbles, was always floating upside down and they all picked on her, needless to say, I had to seperate her at night, as she would lay eggs and they would be swiming after her eating her eggs as she layed them :lol: dear God, talk about take out! So I brought one of those plastic dividers and would put her in one side at night, I loved her so :blink: . My sister ( one in my avatar with me) used to laugh and say I should give her a helmet and I said I can't find one that small. She said to use a walnut shell :lol: . here is pic of her, she has orange lipstick lips and her eyebrows were orange too! So my point was, relaxing for me and aquariums never happened!

the last pic u can see her starting to go upright with her tail end, and the little spotted one behind her, has ick real bad when I got it, I use to get a cramp in my neck from holding it against the glass in a net and picking the worms off of it. haha, the white one was no trouble.....

 

[nasty bugger]

Chun pretty much hit the nail on the head, from my experience.

I got started with mantis' by indoor gardening, but the pests are not large enough to interest the mantis, unless you have beetles and roaches messing with your garden.

I think the first you'd go with lacewings. The larva eat the small parasites for a couple weeks, then they mature into the lacewing adults and leave, or hang out if there is pollen and honey for them to eat, and I was told, but didn't witness, that the mantis' will eat the lacewing adults.

The ladybugs are good for eating stuff, but they don't care for spidermites, which can be the worse enemy of an indoor garden. The lacewings will eat the mites, but if you put lady bugs in before the lacewings, they may eat the lacewing larva, or maybe not. So I'd stage the lacewing larva first, then the ladybugs, and mantis'.

The mantis' will not eat the lady bugs, at least not the your mantids. They may eat them if they are adult mantids, but I don't know. Some say the ladybugs repel mantids, I don't know.

I'd say lacewings for the whiteflies though.

I think I'd stage them, if you get lacewing eggs, in one week hatchings. That way you'll have larva eating the mites and whiteflies. Then do the lady bugs after a month or so, then more stages after they all leave.

If you have bad spidermites I'd say to spring for predatory mites, as they'll clean them up. You do need to get the correct predatory mites for the humidity level and temperature though. They usually recommend two kinds, as some predatory mites leave as soon as they get hungry when the prey thins out, and a different species may stay long to control and lingering stay mites.

I could say to use pyrethrum , but that would affect any biological control that you're trying to use, in a negative way.

I don't recommend pyrethrum unless there is a major overun of predators that can't be controlled by the beneficial insects, but you won't be able to introduce beneficial insects for some time after that application, or you'll kill them also.

Diatomatious earth is an organic pest control, but it may kill your mantis' if you use it, as it'll cut them up and cause fluid loss, and death possibly.

Just do some research online, and stage your predators correctly, or they'll just kill each other off, and you'll gain no benefit.

Soapy water will kill alot of insects, by smothering them.

In colder climates the pests don't grow as fast, plus you can use a carbon dioxide generator to increase growth rate, and some do this so the garden is grown before pests get a good foothold.

As to mantis' hatching in the garden

I hatched some in my indoor garden and I wasn't aware they needed humidity, and they dried up and died, so you will have to keep conditions up for the young nymphs, or they die.

They won't be able to catch prey as easily since the prey won't be contained in a small area that they can get to easily. They'll probably start eating each other at that point, or starve.

I decided to raise the nymphs first, to close to adult size, then start the garden, so the mantis' will be ready to live on their own, and be able to get around well enough to catch prey.

The green lacewings were affordable, and locally available, so that's what I used for mites and other small pests. I then used lady bugs. You'll need to do some 'maintenance' or the mites and other pests may start back up later, and once they get going they roll pretty fast.

They say to take the plants outside and spray the bad bugs off first, then bring the plants back inside and put your biological controls in place. It'll reduce their workload tremendously, and help eradicate the pest much faster.

You'll want to release the beneficials after watering the garden, or whatever if you're using hydroponics. Google it. The water keeps the insects from running off, somehow... hmm

Google beneficial insects, but do keep in mind that some beneficial predators will counteract the other beneficials if not staged correctly.

Some of my tomatoes were excellent My dad argues with me when I try to take some to my apartment He wants them for himself cause they taste so much better than store bought.

I will say I didn't get the kind of production that I expected. Not even close, but the quality was worth the effort.

I'd get bell peppers starting to go, then the insects would attack them and I'd get no peppers, but the tomatoes were tasty, and meaty

I prefer beneficials over pesticides, even if the pesticides are organic.

BTW you can use other plants to draw bugs away from your food plants, if they are more attractive to the pests. Marigolds will draw spidermites. Other types draw other pests. Try googling beneficial or companion planting, and keep in mind, some plants repel certain pests, but also attract possible worse pests, so research well