RED WIDOW

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ExoticOddities said:
Thank you, What, for your comments.

However, I believe you are mistaken about the toxicity of Red Widow venom.

The Red Widow's venom is not "weaker" in toxicity to the Black Widow; rather, it is quite similar in toxicity to Black Widow venom.

Jack
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My phrasing was deliberate in both putting the least in quotations and saying they are "believed" to be, last I checked and it was a year or two ago, the general consensus on latro venoms in the USA was hesperus/mactans at nearly the same level of toxicity toward mammals, variolus being slightly behind that, and then with bishopi typically considered to be about the same as variolus(from the LD50s, but again, it has been awhile) just being far more skittish and docile than the other species found in the USA(and ime from elsewhere in the world too, only L. pallidus and "sp. laos" come close). L. geometricus brings up the rear with a primarily arthropod targeting venom that has less effect on mammals(again, iirc). That could be entirely wrong but I seem to remember that being the state of affairs with Latrodectus venoms last I checked. *shrug*

Even so...I would not be overly concerned after a bite from any of them no matter what species are at whatever level of toxicity... I personally have been bitten by both L. hesperus and L. geometricus(just in the course of yard work and living in their native/introduced range) and neither required medical attention, not a fun experience and you feel crappy for a few days for sure...but barring sudden allergic reaction I really would not worry as long as the symptoms are watched by another person for the next 48hrs after at least.

 
What said:
My phrasing was deliberate in both putting the least in quotations and saying they are "believed" to be, last I checked and it was a year or two ago, the general consensus on latro venoms in the USA was hesperus/mactans at nearly the same level of toxicity toward mammals, variolus being slightly behind that, and then with bishopi typically considered to be about the same as variolus(from the LD50s, but again, it has been awhile) just being far more skittish and docile than the other species found in the USA(and ime from elsewhere in the world too, only L. pallidus and "sp. laos" come close). L. geometricus brings up the rear with a primarily arthropod targeting venom that has less effect on mammals(again, iirc). That could be entirely wrong but I seem to remember that being the state of affairs with Latrodectus venoms last I checked. *shrug*
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I don't have any personal knowledge of spider venoms, but I did pose the question to Dr. G.B. Edwards, Curator of Arachnids for the University of Florida Arthropod Museum, who has pretty much been "the" authority on Florida spiders for nearly 40 years ... and he told me the Red Widow's venom was "quite similar" in toxicity to that of the Black Widow.

One of the interesting facts about venom (at least rattlesnake venom) is that its toxicity can vary across individuals, as well as across locales. For example one rattlesnake of a given species can have highly-toxic venom, while another individual of the same species can have mild venom, and this can have to do with the locale they were collected from. In other words, what they repeatedly eat can have a profound effect on their venom toxicity!

How this applies to widows may be quite relevant (or not at all), but I am sure there is variance amongst specimens as well as across species in general.

What said:
Even so...I would not be overly concerned after a bite from any of them no matter what species are at whatever level of toxicity... I personally have been bitten by both L. hesperus and L. geometricus(just in the course of yard work and living in their native/introduced range) and neither required medical attention, not a fun experience and you feel crappy for a few days for sure...but barring sudden allergic reaction I really would not worry as long as the symptoms are watched by another person for the next 48hrs after at least.
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Well, I've never been bitten by any of them and would like to keep it that way :lol:

Jack

.

 
ExoticOddities said:
In other words, what they repeatedly eat can have a profound effect on their venom toxicity!How this applies to widows may be quite relevant (or not at all), but I am sure there is variance amongst specimens as well as across species in general.
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I would not be surprised at all to see a correlation such as that in Latrodectus, would make for an interesting paper too(even if nothing was found). I dont beleive any such work has ever been done with spiders...

And I can only agree with that Latrodectus species have "quite similar" venom strengths.

 
Thats a beautiful spider in an disturbing way, i would love to keep those but knowing myself i would do something stupid and get bit! :p

 
Beautiful pics, Jack! I have a Latrodectus bishopi sling and look forward to seeing it grow up. Mines still quite a tiny bugger -- need a magnifying glass to appreciate its colors.

Owning a seriously "hot" (venomous) animal is not necessarily that much of an issue, Peter, provided one treats the animal with all the respect it deserves and takes the proper precautions. ;)

LOL! You don't like "all them eyes", Hibiscusmile?! LOL! Mantids have a LOT more than this. :D

 
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dragons_maelstrom said:
Beautiful pics, Jack! I have a Latrodectus bishopi sling and look forward to seeing it grow up. Mines still quite a tiny bugger -- need a magnifying glass to appreciate its colors.

Owning a seriously "hot" (venomous) animal is not necessarily that much of an issue, Peter, provided one treats the animal with all the respect it deserves and takes the proper precautions. ;)

LOL! You don't like "all them eyes", Hibiscusmile?! LOL! Mantids have a LOT more than this. :D
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Thanks & glad you guys like the photos ... oh, and she just created another egg sac :)

.

 
What said:
My phrasing was deliberate in both putting the least in quotations and saying they are "believed" to be, last I checked and it was a year or two ago, the general consensus on latro venoms in the USA was hesperus/mactans at nearly the same level of toxicity toward mammals, variolus being slightly behind that, and then with bishopi typically considered to be about the same as variolus(from the LD50s, but again, it has been awhile) just being far more skittish and docile than the other species found in the USA(and ime from elsewhere in the world too, only L. pallidus and "sp. laos" come close). L. geometricus brings up the rear with a primarily arthropod targeting venom that has less effect on mammals(again, iirc). That could be entirely wrong but I seem to remember that being the state of affairs with Latrodectus venoms last I checked. *shrug*

Even so...I would not be overly concerned after a bite from any of them no matter what species are at whatever level of toxicity... I personally have been bitten by both L. hesperus and L. geometricus(just in the course of yard work and living in their native/introduced range) and neither required medical attention, not a fun experience and you feel crappy for a few days for sure...but barring sudden allergic reaction I really would not worry as long as the symptoms are watched by another person for the next 48hrs after at least.
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Interesting Article: "According to Dr. G.B. Edwards, an arachnologist with the Florida State Collection of Arthropods in Gainesville, the brown widow venom is twice as potent as black widow venom. However, they do not inject as much venom as a black widow, are very timid, and do not defend their web. The brown widow is also slightly smaller than the black widow."

There may well be variability among individuals ...

Cheers,

Jack

 

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