Silkworms?

[Pet Duck Boy]

I just ordered three, 3 foot tall white mulberry trees. Though it'll be awhile till they will sustain silkworms, I was wondering if the silkworms could make a good staple for older/larger mantids, preferably the adult moths. (Since they are short lived, would controlling the temperature have any effect on when the cocoons hatch?) I would be feedings ghosts.

 

[PhilinYuma]

In theory, there is no reason why they shouldn't, but in practice, they make a dreadful splattery mess when eaten and their remains quickly attract molds and bacteria. With so many other, better foods readily available, it does not seem like a good idea.

 

[sporeworld]

Besides my personal horror at the thought, they are WAY impractical, unless you mean the commercial, wingless variety. Their life cycle is WAY too long, and they're very delicate. I think the fat content is way off on them too (one Robin Moth has something like 3x the fat content of a Big Mac). And they'd DWARF a ghost - even at l4. Seems like wax worms would be better IF you even want to do worms. Flies are prefered, readily available, easy to rear and cheap! And even a small colony would DESTROY your mulberry tree in a week or two.

(Crazy kids....)

 

[Pet Duck Boy]

Besides my personal horror at the thought, they are WAY impractical, unless you mean the commercial, wingless variety. Their life cycle is WAY too long, and they're very delicate. I think the fat content is way off on them too (one Robin Moth has something like 3x the fat content of a Big Mac). And they'd DWARF a ghost - even at l4. Seems like wax worms would be better IF you even want to do worms. Flies are prefered, readily available, easy to rear and cheap! And even a small colony would DESTROY your mulberry tree in a week or two.

(Crazy kids....)

Guess they'll be for the chickens. Fine with me. Are even the moths a poor choice? I'm sure if I give these three trees another year or two I'd have more than enough leaves. At a nursery there was a one and a half year old white mulberry tree that stood a good 15+ feet, had more than enough leaves. I recieved a lot of blue bottles a week ago, but I lost 90% within the first few days. Not sure why? Fed them honey, good ventalation, water, etc. 6.50 a week for a hundred+ pupae seems pretty cheap, but even with my own money my parents do not want me to order anything else for awhile...

 

[Jesskb]

If you're looking for something sustainable, why not just feed them crickets? I'm sure you've got those around from what I see in your signature you have other pets that eat them. If kept in good conditions, there's nothing wrong with feeding crickets to mantises ( that are species appropriate, not violins, idolos, ect). My girlfriend owns a single female ghost mantis and she won't keep flies so she just goes to the petstore and buys a few crickets at a time. Her female just laid a nice sized ooth and she's just as healthy as my fly fed ghost mantises.

 

[GreenOasis]

You can put cocoons in the veggie crisper of your fridge to delay eclosing. I've done it before and it doesn't seem to harm them. Then just pull out what you want to eclose each day (though, I think it takes a week or so for them to emerge.) I think they would only be good for large mantids with an extraordinary appetite, though! (Maybe Shields?) Oh, and I *AM* referring to the commercial, non-flying type white silkmoth. Definitely don't use the more ornamental species!

 

[Pet Duck Boy]

If you're looking for something sustainable, why not just feed them crickets? I'm sure you've got those around from what I see in your signature you have other pets that eat them. If kept in good conditions, there's nothing wrong with feeding crickets to mantises ( that are species appropriate, not violins, idolos, ect). My girlfriend owns a single female ghost mantis and she won't keep flies so she just goes to the petstore and buys a few crickets at a time. Her female just laid a nice sized ooth and she's just as healthy as my fly fed ghost mantises.

I'm sure the silkworms I do raise will become partly pets! No way would I feed off any other ornamental moth! As far as crickets go, maybe. I actually don't feed my herps crickets, I feed them dubia roaches. To my disapointment my ghosts won't take them. Probably because they move very little and can barely climb in the first place. My Gonatista female has only eaten 3 since I've had her, she's attacked but ficked away severa others. Waxworm moths have caught my eye, since I've bred them before and they are dirt easy. (I'm sure the adul moths aren't as fatty as the worms, correct? Shouldn't be much differen't than any other WC moth.) Flies are still common right around now, but there's a cold snap this week so I won't expect much during that. At least winter only lasts a little less than 2 months here.

 

[sporeworld]

There are some great (and recent) posts on raising your own flies. And ghosts LOVE flying, fluttering things. Silkmoths remain almost motionless like 99% of the time. And they'd outgrow your ghosts in 2 or 3 weeks. Also, doesn't mulberry lose it's leaves in winter...?

Anyhoo, if I were JUST doing ghosts, I'm pretty sure I could go from ff's to houseflies, and never need anything else (although, I'd need a lot). And house flies, once pupated, can last (correct me if I'm wrong) about 30 days.

 

[GreenOasis]

There are some great (and recent) posts on raising your own flies. And ghosts LOVE flying, fluttering things. Silkmoths remain almost motionless like 99% of the time. And they'd outgrow your ghosts in 2 or 3 weeks. Also, doesn't mulberry lose it's leaves in winter...?

Anyhoo, if I were JUST doing ghosts, I'm pretty sure I could go from ff's to houseflies, and never need anything else (although, I'd need a lot). And house flies, once pupated, can last (correct me if I'm wrong) about 30 days.

The waxworm moths are more mobile, and smaller...like a horsefly in size (but thinner). I notice that he lives in FL, and while mulberries would normally lose thier leaves in the winter, I don't know that that would hold true in Orlando.

I'm not sure how anyone gets their houseflies to last more than 30 days...even with food and water, I can't seem to get them to last more than a few days after eclosing! Must be something I'm doing wrong???

 

[sporeworld]

Must be something wrong in the setup somewhere. Heaven help me if one gets loose in my office - they never seem to die!

I did a post on how I keep them, and I know I get about 2 weeks or more, easy. I get a good week or more with BB's, too. Mantisplace has a good care sheet and system as well.

I'm really happy with them as food source. My L3 (I think) Orchids are taking down BB's now - which is hillarious! I have one Gongy nymph in their enclosure who looks kind of jealous. He just doesn't have the muscle to take em down the the Orchids. (They really do look and move like little white spiders).

 

[PhilinYuma]

I've heard a lot of complaints about the short life of bluebottles, despite their being fed yummy honey and pollen!

Now have have you ever seen wild BBs clustered round a honey pot? They need animal protein. Mine survive much better in my breeding cages because they have 3 cups (dry weight) of yummy, rotting protein both to lay in and to eat! Your BBs should be able to live from between 2-3 weeks.at most, shorter than houseflies.

 

[sporeworld]

Hmmm. I didn't know for sure if they ate the protein. That's interesting. Any recomendations on what to put in there...?

 

[PhilinYuma]

Hmmm. I didn't know for sure if they ate the protein. That's interesting. Any recomendations on what to put in there...?

I almost always have a pot of breeding medium in the cage, but I'm sure that ground cat/dog food alone would work, moistened just enough that the fl;ies don't get stuck in it -- perhaps some wood much scattered on top? Og course, they need the honey, too. Flies in these cages tend to disturb each other due to overcrowding (That's true for me at any rate!) and consequently fly more. The sugar provides "instant energy" for flying.

 

[PhilinYuma]

Hmmm. I didn't know for sure if they ate the protein. That's interesting. Any recomendations on what to put in there...?

I almost always have a pot of breeding medium in the cage, but I'm sure that ground cat/dog food alone would work, moistened just enough that the fl;ies don't get stuck in it -- perhaps some wood much scattered on top? Og course, they need the honey, too. Flies in these cages tend to disturb each other due to overcrowding (That's true for me at any rate!) and consequently fly more. The sugar provides "instant energy" for flying.

 

[Pet Duck Boy]

Thanks for the tips about the flies. Too bad it's not really worth it though since I only have maybe 10 BBs left. I have offered a soaked dog kibble for them every few days, and they do eat it?

@Sporeworld - Mulberry does loes it leaves in winter. It should take much longer here in Florida, though, a recent trip to a nursery revealed a pretty tall mulberry still lush with 3/4ths of it's leaves. Freezing the leaves is another option, and since winter doesn't last long here it's maybe a good idea.