skiddish Gonatista grisea

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grob

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Hi everybody,

well, I've been largely lurking on this forum reading up on all the great info. I was hoping to start slowly, I have 6 Phyllocrania paradoxa nymphs and 5 Creobroter pictipennis nymphs. I think they are the one-two punch of commonly raised mantids and I can see why, they are super cool and good eaters and really delightful to watch.

I know lots of people are interested in Gonatista grisea, and I'm hoping to help Andrew and Agent A build a gonatista factory, so I've spent some time looking for them.

At first, no luck. I think I was looking in the wrong place. I know they love small trunks from what I've read, but I think they also need the trunks to be free from vegetation (so they can see far and easily run around the trunks?) So I was looking at beautiful lichen covered little oaks in the tangled undergrowth, on the edge of forests. I had also heard the edge of forests was the place. Nothing.

So once I started looking on trees with nothing around them I started to see them. Or, more accurately, when I got really close to the tree I saw something quickly run and later saw this!

gonatista_grisea01.jpg


I actually managed to catch the first one I saw - not easy. And get it home, and here it is in its first home:

grisea.jpg

I apologize for the bad photos, I ordered an iphone macro lens, hopefully better photos soon.

So that's the good news. The bad news is this individual seems very skiddish. It seems terrified of me and any fly or moth I gave it.

So I thought I was being clever and I put a log in the middle of a container so it could run around and hide, then I see Andrew had the same setup and others before him. Well, it worked, somewhat, and now the grisea was no longer skittering around when I walked into the room. It molted the next day, and so I figured it just wasn't eating because it was getting ready to molt.

The problem is the cage is so big, I'm not sure it is eating. I put in all kinds of bugs and moths, and I think there may be fewer, but maybe they are down in the sphagnum. The abdomen doesn't seem very fat. Maybe it doesn't like being watched when it eats. It is amazing how far away they can see you. It spends most of its time on the far side of the log where it can't be seen, seemingly pining for the fjords.

Andrew's all seem so happy and congenial. Do you think I just have a nervous one? Is there like an adjustment period where they settle down to captivity? I'm debating putting it back into a smaller cage without the log so I can see if it eats, but it does seem happier with its mini-tree trunk. The room is 20-22C and the humidity is around 60%, and everyone else seems to happily eat.

By the way, I returned to the spot I caught it and found another grisea had moved onto the same tree, and I found a third on a nearby tree, all cypress trees with nothing around them. I didn't try to catch them. I don't want to depopulate the area, and I don't want to get more until I'm sure I can take care of them.

Can you spot the nymph? (I couldn't. I only saw it after it moved.)

griseainsitu.jpg

 
Awesome news! Yes, wild caught nymphs are very skittish and shy...they take a couple molts to get used to the captive life, but will still have their instincts of going flat and quick sprints when they are startled when they get older and some take longer to acclamate than others...make sure you have good ventilation (the reason I had such huge die offs of the hatchlings)...

Glad to hear a new source for WC has been found!

Cheers,

Andrew

 
Do you have long skinny pincher things to hold a moth infront of the mantis while it is fluttering its wings? Hold it by one wing. Because he is so skittish you probably cannot get close to the mantis with the moth in your fingers or get him in the mood to eat it. I would put him in a 32oz deli container and see if he is too stressed in there (he probably will be at first). If he stops moving a lot in a small container you put him in after 2 or less minutes I would put in some moths carefully to not scare him (keep the lid partly open). I would stick a moth's body with a long tooth pick like stick (much longer than a tooth pick) and put it close to the mantis without scaring the mantis while the moth is fluttering its wings.

 
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I wish I could find some wild mantids in New Jersey. But I will be in South Carolina end of the month and then in Connecticut mid-April.

 
Do you have long skinny pincher things to hold a moth infront of the mantis while it is fluttering its wings? Hold it by one wing. Because he is so skittish you probably cannot get close to the mantis with the moth in your fingers or get him in the mood to eat it. I would put him in a 32oz deli container and see if he is too stressed in there (he probably will be at first). If he stops moving a lot in a small container you put him in after 2 or less minutes I would put in some moths carefully to not scare him (keep the lid partly open). I would stick a moth's body with a long tooth pick like stick (much longer than a tooth pick) and put it close to the mantis without scaring the mantis while the moth is fluttering its wings.
Not exactly.. at least with this species...my method (can I call it mine? :p ) of the vertical branch in the middle of the enclosure works best at helping them calm down...it encourages their wild stance of lying flat against the wood/bark/branch.....but they will still sometimes stay up on the top...so Yen's suggestions of putting damp cotton around the inside of the rim really helps...

 
Thanks everyone. To look for these I go up to a tree and sort of run my and just above it and watch for something to run. I must look really strange to passersby. "Look that crazy guy is communing with the tree!"

Thanks, Andrew, that's reassuring. I think I have enough ventilation, I have it in a slightly bigger than 1L container with screens on two sides:

newcage.jpg

It seems happy in here, the above picture was right after I put it in. Since then it has never left the bark, always facing down.

I'll try a moth on forceps like happy1892 suggested, although my forceps aren't that skinny. I have some orchid tying wire that I use to poke prey through the screen, maybe I'll just use that. I'm thinking of taking the sphagnum out so I can count prey and see if it ate while I wasn't looking.

Now to find a moth... Stupid cold spell...

 
Perfect setup! And youve got a great blue/green one there! Unfortunately, they don't keep it for ever :/ but its amazing while they do...

I just catch a wild fly and take off one or both its wings so it crawls...then this should make it reachable...and look on the tree that you found them...these guys will eat ants too! And yeah this cold spell has made finding wild food difficult! No bees for thr orchids or flies and grasshoppers for the majuscla...my roaches don't like it :p

 
They can't solely eat ants can they? Cuz that would make feeding so much easier.

 
Perfect setup! And youve got a great blue/green one there! Unfortunately, they don't keep it for ever :/ but its amazing while they do...

I just catch a wild fly and take off one or both its wings so it crawls...then this should make it reachable...and look on the tree that you found them...these guys will eat ants too! And yeah this cold spell has made finding wild food difficult! No bees for thr orchids or flies and grasshoppers for the majuscla...my roaches don't like it :p
Thanks Andrew. I was wondering about the ants. I had put some carpenter ants in (Camponotus sp.) as I read in a paper about Gonatista grisea [Prey capture in a mantid (Gonatista grisea): Does geotropy promote success? Ladau, J. Canadian Journal of Zoology 81. 2 (Feb 2003): 354-356] that they liked carpenter ants.

There were fewer ants in there the next time I looked, but I wasn't sure if they were eaten or they got out and were now living in my sock drawer. I'll try some again. Ants would be a lot easier to find, but I wouldn't think they could live solely on ants either, aychen222, but I think horny toads do...

By the way, if anyone wants that article I mentioned, or any other, let me know. I have access to a lot of online journals, and as Aaron Swartz said, papers should be free.

 
I believe they can, but in the wild, the trees that I've seen them on are covered on mayflies and spiders and such....so they can but they don't...

 
Are Gonatista grisea scared of big moths? Does anybody think they would like Red Runner Roaches? The Red Runners dart a lot and do not keep running when I startle them. I imagined Gonatista grisea would move like the Red Runners haha. But the Red Runners do not dart when I am not scaring them. The Red Runners are mostly active at night. They move slowly (not darting) when they are left alone at night. In the daytime when I put them in a container for my Jumping Spiders they stop moving much after a while but they do move a little.

 
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Finally! Tonight it ate a ladybug-sized roach I caught outside with a sweepnet. Whew! Thanks everyone for the suggestions. Now I can relax!

 
You caught a roach with a sweepnet? And they usually take a couple of feedings to get used to new norm...so saying that, I hope he/she eats a lot! ;)

 

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