Skipping an Instar

[SkittishMale]

I just had a male Mantis religiosa skip an instar and become an adult. I had two males this week and one molted and moved on to 5th instar like normal whereas the other took a few days longer to molt and when it did, it matured into an adult instead of moving on to 5th instar like the other did. The L5 male and the adult male are both currently the same size.

I know the males of M. religiosa normally have 5 instars before becoming an adult.

Has anyone else experienced this?

 

[Cordero]

Skipping an instar? Don't think that is possible.

Its just older then the other one. Possibly mixed up what instar they are at.

 

[MantidLord]

Definitely possible and has been mentioned in some articles I've read (I've forgotten which ones so I know that sounds dubious) although hasn't been extensively studied. I've also experienced this as well especially with M. religiosa and the instars were not mixed up. The skipped molts were also noticeably smaller than the 'normals'.

Also I find it funny that if you read about mantids and their instars, a lot of literature says something like "7 or 8" molts. Sorta implies that they may alternate or that it's just not known. Unfortunately not many people really keep M. religiosa so it's probably not encountered as often.

 

[SkittishMale]

My second male Mantis religiosa just molted to adulthood and it is noticeably larger than my other male who skipped an instar.

I know different species of mantids have different numbers of instars. I found that Mantis religiosa females only go through 6 instars whereas the males only go through 5. Tenodera sinensis go through more instars before becoming an adult. I believe Mantis religiosa go through fewer instars than many other mantis species because M. religiosa is naturally found in a much cooler climate compared to where most other species are found. Living in a cooler climate means shorter growing season and so therefore it must mature faster.

 

[Domanating]

I found that Mantis religiosa females only go through 6 instars whereas the males only go through 5.

Well I never saw that happening and I only keep M. Religiosa except for very rare cases where I find other species.

I'm not sure about the number of female instars, yet because I still haven't succeeded in keeping females from the day they were born until adulthood. But I had many males and they all molted 8 times.

I've seen and kept a lot of wild caught midget males but never bred one. So as for molt skipping, I still haven't found any discrepancies with mine.

As for females, well I still have to wait on that. The only thing I can say is I've never seen a midget female of this species.

 

[MantidLord]

Domanating, last year I would have agreed with your last sentence, except I found a very small, midget adult female the size of a subadult female. It was wild caught so I can't say it skipped a molt or anything, but just thought I'd point it out.

It's could be that mantids either skip molts or actually go through extra molts. I wouldn't be surprised if both occurred.

 

[[email protected]]

I have a midget Female Iris Oratoria! I had 3 midget males. The males that are normal for my species are L8 and I even had 1 L9! So my midgets are L7! This is what I've observed in all but 1 male: They ALL had some-kind of injury (except 1 male). The other 2 males didn't make it. One had an injured leg before the molt, and 1 ended up with disfigured wings. My Female midget is L7 and she had a leg injury as well. She is still not 100%! Here is another thing I have observed: She is calling! It seems that they may be turning earlier because of the pheromones?

Yes, why is it so hard to get adult females? I only have 1 adult female and had a total of 8 males so far!

Now I have questions about mating her. The males are bigger and her tummy is fat. If she tries to eat them she will get hurt. She does not need to mate as she is parthogenic, but she seems depressed after she calls and no one comes.

 

[[email protected]]

I forgot to mention that the injured mantids took over a month to molt, and skipped a molt, whereas the non-injured ones molted after about 3 weeks or less. Maybe they just needed time to repair?.

 

[Domanating]

Now I have questions about mating her. The males are bigger and her tummy is fat. If she tries to eat them she will get hurt. She does not need to mate as she is parthogenic,

Before trying to mate her, feed her a lot and prepare attempt the mating in the morning. Keep a close eye every now and then and hope they aren't still connected before you go to sleep.

Females, even if midget, are way tougher. The males would rather try to flee than defend themselves.

If you lack females then don't mate her. The next generation will be all females.

 

[whiskeymikie]

In my area we have wild European mantises. I have found adult females literally half the size of the majority. i asked reddit about it and got nothing. So maybe it was the same situation.

 

[MantidLord]

Okay to the guy with Iris oratoria:

1) Mate the female. The females don't always lay ootheca that hatch.

2) The male can eat the female if he's bigger and he will if he's hungry. Stuff him just like the female. I caught a freakishly huge male I. oratoria before (and posted about it on this forum a couple of years back). Put him with an average sized female and came back to just the female's wings and a fat, "stupid" male.

 

[[email protected]]

Yikes! Yes, I am surprised at how aggressive some of the male iris oratoria males are! I have had L7 males kill L7 females.

I shouldn't have given my midget adult L7 male go!

Thank you for the advice, but after reading your post about the fat "stupid" male, I think I will wait on mating her until I get a larger adult female.

Could not mating hurt the female in any way? Like her depression?

 

[Domanating]

Ouch, MantidLord. Hearing about a male eating a female is a first to me.

Could not mating hurt the female in any way? Like her depression?

Lol, no.

I'm sure people that own female cats and dogs and don't want offspring, don't see their pets falling on a depression and attempting suicide.

Males on the other hand will go to great lengths to find a partner.

 

[MantidLord]

You don't have to mate the female, you can look for smaller males or just hopes she lays ooths that are parthenogenic.

Where'd you get the I. oratoria from anyway? I've been looking for ooths.

 

[[email protected]]

I got the Iris Oratoria in my back yard last year! This year is not so good. All the outdoor ones seemed to have disappeared. I wanted to try to get more ooths from outside, but no luck so far. Keep in touch and if I get some ooths I could send them to you.

My midget L7 (inside) was laying eggs when I came home and accidentally scared her. She stopped laying eggs right now. Will she be ok?

 

[SkittishMale]

But I had many males and they all molted 8 times.

Maybe because of where I live, the Mantis religiosa could have adapted by growing to adult size within fewer instars. I don't know the climate of Portugal but if it's got a longer growing season than Ontario, that would give the mantids a longer time to grow and not have to mature as soon.

 

[MantidLord]

Actually, I wouldn't even try to standardized M. religiosa across continents (Europe and NA), for the simple fact that the two populations could very well be subspecies and thus develop slightly differently. There was a cool thread a long while back about M. religiosa subspecies and some which required diapause and others that didn't.