Some molted skin stuck on Heirodula L4

[Deacon]

My H. membranacea molted in transit and is a mess! His thorax is humped badly so his face drags which makes it hard to try feeding him honey or baby meat, his grabber arms are pretty much useless---don't know why, and he can only scuttle backwards. He still has unmolted skin stuck under his chin/neck. I think he can lick but don't know if his mouth can open (I need to get out a quilter's magnifying glass to see under there.) We waited until we were sure he was hardened off and got some of the skin off but not totally. Is there a way to get unmolted skin off safely? I'm hoping he can make it a couple of weeks and come out better next molt---but the old skin has to be removed first, right? He's feisty as he tries to bat at me in a spastic sort of way. He has managed to get from the bottom to the lid (but it sure looks sad.) I was ready to freeze him but I'd like to give him a chance if anyone has any good ideas. Thanks!

 

[Rick]

I don't think that mantis has much chance of survival. I think the humane thing would be to euthanize it instead of prolonging its suffering. You could place it in the freezer or use an insect kill jar.

 

[mantisman 230]

Or, if you have another larger mantis, feed it to it.

 

[twolfe]

Baby meat??? I've had limited success with mismolts, but I have saved a few that have been able to still hang from a lid and eat. However, yours is bent worse than any that I've saved. I mist them before removing the skin with a tweezers. I feed them by removing the head from blue bottle flies or mealworms and use a tweezers to give it to them. If it just molted, then it might not want to eat right away.

 

[Deacon]

Rick, my initial response when he arr. on Thurs. was like-minded but I was stopped by family as I headed to the freezer.

mantisman 230, I get not wasting it, but it just feels like promoting cannibalism and feels creepy.

Tammy, yes, I fed Gerber baby chicken to an old T. sinensis for months as he wouldn't eat. He seemed to love it. He was my first mantis and was handled a lot until he started flying onto my face every chance he got.

So, with this Hierodula nymph, I will try getting the rest of the molt off but he is so tiny and fragile (5/8") that there's nothing to hold onto. He should have arrived Tues but the USPS really dropped the ball and delivered him Thurs---long story.

It's sort of sad. I had ordered a pair of Heirodulas a few weeks ago. The female is fine (just molted a second time this morning and she is beautiful) but her first male counterpart molted in shipping and was DOA. So, Mikhail was re-shipping a second male (and a couple of ghosts )---they are all fine, whew---and he threw in a "bonus" younger male Heirodula because of the molting-in-transit thing. It is this bonus nymph that has one foot in the grave.

Since my pair of Chinese mantids are now passed, I am surging forth with four new "beginner" species: 2 Giant Asian blues (possibly 3 if today goes well with the above nymph), 2 Giant Africans, 2 Budwings (also a bonus gift from Mikhail), and 2 Ghosts.

Okay, I'm not just helping my grandson with a messed up class project anymore...now it's a serious hobby! I wouldn't be doing this except for this forum. (I hardly read books anymore, except Orin's wonderful hardback---I just pour over everyone's posts way too much looking for ideas and answers!)

Thanks everyone!

Nancy

 

[rbird]

Seems to me, the deciding factor is; can he eat? You don't have that information yet.

So yes, get the magnifying glass and determine if he can actually use his mouth to eat something within a few days? He might get the old skin off trying to eat something? He might get the old skin off himself by cleaning himself? or it just rubs off? Maybe after misting for a day or two, it softens the old shed, it pulls off or it falls off? Who knows?

Give him a couple of days and see if can eat something first?

 

[Ranitomeya]

I have made attempts to save mantises that have mismolted in a similar way, but the ones as bent up as that usually either fail to initiate molting or they get stuck again and die. Only the less severely curved ones with at least three fully functional hindlegs ever seem to have a chance.

 

[Deacon]

rbird, I think I got the molt off---at least there's nothing hanging anymore. He can pick up his head now and turns to watch me (which is better that having his face planted on the floor!) He drinks water and I can see his mouth moving a bit, but does it open? Don't know. His left grabber arm seems pretty useless at the shoulder and gets caught under him. He can hang from the lid just fine (which he prefers) but he'll never chase anything down with his unco-ordinated movements. He's got another day. If I can't get him to munch on anything that needs chewing by this time tomorrow, I'll do the kind thing.

Ranitomeya, I always appreciate your advice. Thank you.

Nancy

 

[rbird]

Any luck?

 

[Deacon]

Well, he's still alive ten days after his mis-molt but I wouldn't say he is thriving. Even with the magnifier, I can't tell if his mouth opens and that is the clincher. I just don't have enough hands or good enough eyes! Ah, I'll get out my headlamp tomorrow! Wish I'd thought of it before! I know the little wiggly hairs on at least one side of his mouth move (not sure about the other) he seems to drink, and he really wants to eat when I put something against his mouth. So far, I have only offered him slurried-up food but he's not getting enough to thrive. Except for the left grabber arm, the other legs maneuver a little better. Any future is still pending....Thanks for asking, rbird

Nancy

 

[Ranitomeya]

If he's unable to eat properly, the prospects aren't very good. He cannot molt until he's eaten enough and gained the resources to produce a new exoskeleton.

 

[Krissim Klaw]

This is a tough one. It is promissing he can hang on the lid himself. The eating issue however is troubling. Is he fattening up at all? Is he passing whaste at a decent rate?

 

[rbird]

So far, I have only offered him slurried-up food but he's not getting enough to thrive. Except for the left grabber arm, the other legs maneuver a little better.

Heroic nursing so far. The mantis equivalent of "bottle feeding" for 10 days, good work.

But wait, so you haven't tried live food yet? or if you have, what does he do with live food? Live food might stimulate his natural prey and eating behaviors. Leave some live food in the enclosure at all times. Not a lot just a few. What did he eat prior to your receiving him? Try that?

 

[Ranitomeya]

Do not leave live food in his enclosure. If it's something with chewing mouthparts, he won't be able to properly defend himself and will get eaten alive. If it's a feeder like a fly, he probably won't be able to grab it with his hunched back. It will only make him expend energy uselessly trying to capture prey. In the photo you posted, it also looks like he did not manage to get his raptorial claws out of his old exoskeleton, so he might not have the strength to grab anything anyways.

 

[Deacon]

Hey all,

Thank you all for your suggestions to help. I really have appreciated all the input and I know you all care about each and every mantid you have touched or you wouldn't have bothered. In spite of everything, he (Humpy) was not thriving enough to carry on and I felt worse trying to keep him alive than putting him down. So, this evening, I placed him in the freezer next to the bodies of my T sinensis m and f. :angel: If only the USPS had delivered him as promised, this wouldn't have happened because he would have been here in time to molt.

On a brighter note, my Hierodula female molted to sub-adult yesterday. She is sooo strong and aggressive!

Thanks, everyone!

Nancy

Edit: to answer the questions, I did leave a few hydei in with him at first but it became apparent that his raptorial claws did not work, in spite of having the molt taken off, so I removed them. I cleaned his cup this afternoon, and no, there was no frass---that is what made the decision to stop.