Sphodromantis sp tanzania--legs like a newborn colt!

[Deacon]

My female, Speedy, had her final molt yesterday and at first I thought she was perfectly beautiful with her gorgeous wings and huge size!  Then she started moving.  Her legs are sooo long she hardly knew what to do with them!  Her sticky feet and long, straight legs weren't working well enough to climb up her stick so last night I wrapped bubbly shelf liner around them so she had some purchase.  I noticed this morning  that when she hangs upside down, her abdomen cants off to the left like she was in the wrong position when  she hardened off.  Her abdomen has always been wide and I figured it was her species.  But now it falls out of her wings on that side.  When she is upright, her abdomen stays within her wings but her legs won't support her so she was trying to belly crawl with these extra long legs flopping around and her raptorials weren't strong enough to move her dragging abdomen.

I got her out this afternoon and she fed and drank really well (four days since she had eaten).  Tonight she is actually hanging from her mesh lid and her legs are bent at the knee and look normal except for the length (versus last night when they were straight).

I'm wondering if she had a mis-molt (her skin was on the ground and she was very low on the stick and struggling to climb it when I found her) or if she was just soft, weak and exhausted.

Do the Tanzanias have really long legs?  I mean, she makes my Dbl shield look small!

Any thoughts?  She is my first Sphodromantis so I have no comparisons.

 

[Extrememantid]

If it was right after the moult when she was walking funny it would make sense. As far as the abdomen thing I wouldn't worry too much if it's just a wide abdomen. Likely just a lanky species.

 

[Deacon]

Extrememantid,

Well, the male molted perfectly this morning and he has long legs, too.  I'll be interested to see how these two get around on their stilts!  Just hanging on the mesh lids so far. And I guess her abdomen is going to remain off to one side.  It looks like the left tegmina is supporting it.

 

[Krissim Klaw]

Even if they have short legs mantises can have major problems moving if they get out of place directly after a molt. Their legs just don't work right so it can be hard for them to crawl back into a proper spot if they loose their grip and end up on the ground. As long as you managed to get her up in a decent position before her legs full sent, they should strengthen back up. I wouldn't be too worried about the slightly askew abdomen, but it might be prudent to try and keep her on the lighter side of healthy for a gravid female depending on how it dangles.

 

[Deacon]

Krissim Klaw,

I'm going to get them out tomorrow and see how they are doing then.  Once I put her on the lid, she has stayed there hanging from four legs. She molted low on a stick I believe and her very fresh molt was on the ground next to her.  She couldn't climb at all in fact I am wondering if one of her raptorials has toe problems.  They are brown but the others are green and she "cleans" that foot all the time. 

The male managed to molt high up on the side (mesh divider in aquarium) and immediately moved over to the mesh lid where he has stayed all day.

Time will tell.  It is a beautiful, heavy species.  And I will watch her weight, thank you.

 

[Deacon]

Krissim Klaw,

Okay, this is what I saw this morning: Her wings, although perfectly shaped, are more toward her right side; her abdomen torques toward the left when she's hanging but is perfectly aligned when she is upright which then makes her right tegmina touch the ground.  While hand-feeding her, I noticed that she is not on her abdomen but resting on the top joint where her skinny legs begin so she splays the long legs out mostly flat.  She can walk without dragging her bottom though. Still acts like a gangly colt.  I'm pretty sure she was too low when she molted and those long legs left her on the ground in a corner that she couldn't climb out of with her fresh legs.

I don't think any of this will prohibit mating her if I decide to give it a go.  They are certainly beautiful mantids.  I had my male Hierodula out feeding at the same time with the Sphodromantis male and except for the different hue of green, their shape is very similar. (The females are very different because the Sphod. is at least twice as wide.  I thought the Hierodula was big until this girl emerged.  Wow!)

So now all fourteen of my nymphs have molted to adult. Yay!  

 

[Sticky]

Any pictures?

 

[Krissim Klaw]

It sounds like she can still get around well enough to have a good quality life. I would just provide plenty of texture and easy places for her to cling from the roof/walls of her enclosure. She might even improve a touch more over the next few days. I've noticed with molting issues that even after the main hardening there is still some give to how their bodies will best adjust to any issues.

 

[Deacon]

Sticky, Krissim Klaw,

I actually think she looks worse now as her wings seem more exaggerated. 

Here is her left side standing, her right side standing, and how her abdomen hangs canted left when she is upside down.  The more I look at her, I really think she was in a bad position hanging under her branch and on the ground and her wings  formed to one side with the weight of her wide, heavy abdomen.

I dragged the photos so I'm not sure what will happen once I submit reply...

Oh cool---photos are so much easier to add now! Sorry I didn't invert a couple.

You can also see that I have wrapped her sticks so she can climb them with those legs of hers!

 

[Krissim Klaw]

She honestly doesn't look that bad to me. As long as she is eating and waste is passing through I wouldn't be too worried about the abdomen slant.

 

[Deacon]

Hey, thanks, that's good to know.  She's a great eater!  With the coco substrate, it's hard to see the frass so I'll try to keep an eye on it.

She also seems more coordinated and in control of those long legs, too, although I haven't taken the wrapping off her sticks.

Anyway, I'll hope for the best!

 

[CosbyArt]

If she is using her legs, and able to hang, she is doing fine.

I'd just keep an eye on her abdomen, as I've had a few that developed abdomen issues. Those mantids developed a floppy/flat abdomen that nearly hanged 90 degrees straight down when they were hanging upside down, and eventually killed them due to the inability to process/excrete food/frass. It is a different issue than your female, which is a slight curve and can be common, but just saying it's worth watching to try and avoid health issues.

 

[Deacon]

Yes, she is much better off then my Tenodera sinensis that had the 90 degree bend as an adult. With the size of prey she eats, she must be passing frass---I'll get out the magnifying glass and look.

 

[Krissim Klaw]

If you really want to check for frass you can just get a paper towel or two and place them under where she is hanging out in the cage. Chances are within several hours you will discover a fresh turd. If she is eating heartily and you haven't seen any brown vomit smears though than chances are she is passing waste just fine.

 

[Deacon]

Geez, why didn't I think of that?  Thanks!  I used to use paper towels for flooring in all my enclosures but now that they are in aquarium settings, I didn't think of it. GRRR.  Glad someone still has a mind  

 

[CosbyArt]

Geez, why didn't I think of that?  Thanks!  I used to use paper towels for flooring in all my enclosures but now that they are in aquarium settings, I didn't think of it. GRRR.  Glad someone still has a mind  

Indeed the great thing of posting - usually someone can help and typically in a way not thought of (I myself am victim to such things too of course). A outside source is one of the best things on perspective/solutions.

Have you had a chance to evaluate the frass?

 

[Deacon]

Thomas, not yet---busy day.  I just put a towel down about an hour ago so I'll know more tomorrow.

 

[Deacon]

Thomas, her frass is normal for her---big. I couldn't get the paper towel in there to lay flat due to her big sticks, so the frass is rolling off the low end but I found it with a flashlight tonight. Oh, I just looked up and she was plopping out a fresh one to show me.  It looks great, which is good news, right?  

She is one big girl at 9 days-old and she has a potential mate 3 days older so they would be perfect for each other if I had the courage and room.  But I'm full of adults right now so the timing is off unless some of these over two-month-olds pass on.  The tanzanias are my youngest adults and IF I were to mate anyone, it would probably be them. They were really fast and jumpy as nymphs. Almost freaky at L2s.  

 My Dbl shields have been great pets, too. but they were almost grown when I purchased them so don't know what personality the nymphs have.  Both these species are good eaters.  You can probably see that I am torn about "to breed or not to breed".  If they only had two to four babies, I'm sure I'd give it a go.LOL

 

[CosbyArt]

Good to hear, lol yeah it can be large depending on their size (at times almost the same size as mouse droppings when we get them invading in the fall). Indeed might as well breed them, if nothing else sell some of the ooths or nymphs in the classifieds to help buy goods for the babies you keep.

I had some Double Shields from L2 or L3 and they were actually some of the tamest mantids I've had. They seemed to enjoy getting out and sitting around by me, and one liked to climb up my arm and sit on my head if I didn't catch in time to stop him. As they neared adults though I traded them out to a MF member as a breeding pair he was looking for. So I can't comment on how the nymphs compared to the adults, but the nymphs were great.