Spiders as lunch?

[Rick]

Now you've done it Rick! Based on your undoubted experience in the SE U.S., forum members all over the world are going to go out and snatch up spiders barehanded (because they don't want to appear comical) and many will not even get home to endanger their mantises. I don't know where in Australia SF comes from, but I do know that new member James lives in the middle of Sidney Funnel Spider country. Do you have your anti venom kit handy, James? They have even discovered a new poisonous spider in Brno, Moravia!The difference between spiders and venomous insects like bees and wasps is that the latter are traditional mantis prey, particularly among flower mantids, but as most of us already know, and Hurd points out in Prete's The Praying Mantids, "Mantids and spiders eat each other," and though we tilt the balance heavily in favor of our charges by choosing smaller spiders for larger mantids, the spider stands a better chance than any other live food, I think, of turning the tables.

I was replying to superfreaks comment about the mantis picking up a spider the wrong way. Common sense should tell you to watch out for yourself. I don't condone the act of gathering poisonous spiders as food. In my case vast majority of spiders I have used for food were house spiders which equals no danger for people or mantids. You should educate yourself on what is and isn't dangerous. Even the large garden banana spiders are no match for a large mantis.

 

[superfreak]

Rick,

Despite how it often looks, a mantid does not consider how to hold its prey or whether its prey might bite it before it strikes. It will try to strike side on because it increases the chance of a successful hit. So often, the prey is almost completely immobilised. Unfortunately this is not always the case. As you said, its a very low risk. But the risk is still there. I have had mantids damages by spiders, wasps and even the odd katydid. Im not talking about some tiny flower mantid being overpowered here - ive had large Tenodera and Hierodula sp being permanently crippled! I had a wasp sting a mantid in the elbow joint even though the mantid had captured it perfectly. The wasp had a telescopic abdomen and felt around until it found a crack in the exoskeleton! Truthfully, before the past few months, i would not have believed that these insects could hurt my mantids. But recently ive had what seems to be a run of bad luck. What im saying is, although it may not happen usually, it sometimes does. I cant see how you can argue with the sense in trying to keep your beloved (and sometimes quite valuable) specimens safe!

Olga.

 

[hibiscusmile]

Yeppers, this last summer a wasp got my orchid baby, she fought like a crazy woman to get it off her head and couldn't , when I realized she was in trouble, it took two forcepts of pulling to remove it and its body seperated from its head is why I had to do it twice, it wouldn't let go. The orchid bled, but recovered!

 

[Rick]

Rick,Despite how it often looks, a mantid does not consider how to hold its prey or whether its prey might bite it before it strikes. It will try to strike side on because it increases the chance of a successful hit. So often, the prey is almost completely immobilised. Unfortunately this is not always the case. As you said, its a very low risk. But the risk is still there. I have had mantids damages by spiders, wasps and even the odd katydid. Im not talking about some tiny flower mantid being overpowered here - ive had large Tenodera and Hierodula sp being permanently crippled! I had a wasp sting a mantid in the elbow joint even though the mantid had captured it perfectly. The wasp had a telescopic abdomen and felt around until it found a crack in the exoskeleton! Truthfully, before the past few months, i would not have believed that these insects could hurt my mantids. But recently ive had what seems to be a run of bad luck. What im saying is, although it may not happen usually, it sometimes does. I cant see how you can argue with the sense in trying to keep your beloved (and sometimes quite valuable) specimens safe!

Olga.

I have never seen it happen. Ever. Now wasps can have a pretty good bite but then again you shouldn't feed one to a mantis unless that mantis is much larger. Not to mention wasps have little to eat on them anyways. We got mantids around here that sit in these bee/wasp infested meadows and eat them all day long. I don't normally use bees/wasps as food but have. I understand how mantids eat, been observing them since I was old enough to walk. I am not trying to argue with anyone. People like to say this and that will hurt your mantis when it won't. In my experience bee stings and spider bites happen so rarely (if ever) it's just not worth worrying about if you want to give one as an occasional snack to your mantids. Mantids are not beloved pets to me. My herps, cats, etc are beloved pets, not an insect that lives a few months.

 

[PhilinYuma]

I have never seen it happen. Ever. Now wasps can have a pretty good bite but then again you shouldn't feed one to a mantis unless that mantis is much larger. Not to mention wasps have little to eat on them anyways. We got mantids around here that sit in these bee/wasp infested meadows and eat them all day long. I don't normally use bees/wasps as food but have. I understand how mantids eat, been observing them since I was old enough to walk. I am not trying to argue with anyone. People like to say this and that will hurt your mantis when it won't. In my experience bee stings and spider bites happen so rarely (if ever) it's just not worth worrying about if you want to give one as an occasional snack to your mantids. Mantids are not beloved pets to me. My herps, cats, etc are beloved pets, not an insect that lives a few months.

Well, I've run out of anything new to say on this topic, though the discussion has been entertaining. I guess that those of us who regularly feed spiders and venomous insects will continue to do so, those of us who have had bad experiences (even if, Rick, as you suggest, they may be entirely imaginary) won't, and anyone weighing the pros and cons of this practice will be thoroughly confused!

And anyway, I have to walk Tucker, catch some bees (and the Fairy Dusters in this area have nearly all gone to seed, damn), and admire the spiders