Store Crickets R Safe?

[Rick]

Ok, then this was misunderstood on my side. But you should maybe ask yourself why even me has wrongly understood what you said, not talking about less experienced guys than we two!. It just doesn't become clear from your answers.The average or beginner hobbyist is really the problem. Of course someone who hasn't bred mantids before can't know about all problems, and as crickets were mentioned in almost every feeder insect source as good mantis food (which they were in the past), one cannot know about the new problems. Now when someone buys one or more mantids from me and asks for care tips, it is much safer to say "avoid crickets" than explaining when and how he should find, buy, and feed crickets until feeding them to mantids, how the cricket box should look like (no vomiting dots on the cardboard) or what he can do if he got a problem: in fact he can do nothing, even if the mantids should recover, they stay infertile. So, to avoid that people get disappointed after their first try, it's just safe to say: no crickets, so there is one failure less they can do. Some species like Idolomantis may die after a single cricket meal, but I didn't figure out yet why. I didn't try it with mines yet.

It's text. It is easy to misunderstand. I am sure we all do it. However, in normal face to face conversation I doubt it would happen. I think you have a lot of frustration with the average hobbyist. However, most people will fall into that category. Not everyone is or even wants to be an entomologist. But without people taking up an interest in these creatures the hobby may die out. I think there are potential issues with every food source. Wild food would seem an ideal source however i've ran into problems with that too. For some of us, myself included, roaches are not an option. Now, that isn't due to myself, but family members who cannot be convinced they won't escape and breed. I admit I have zero experience with idolomantis, so I will have to take your word that they cannot eat crickets. I find it odd that an opportunistic predator cannot eat a single cricket without dropping dead. However, I am sure you could get all technical on me and explain why,but I am frankly not interested right now.

Look, I know crickets are not the best food under all circumstances, and it is easy to tell someone not to use them. But like it or not crickets are the easiest, cheapest, and most available food source out there for most of us. I noticed you mentioned something about the tenedora in my backyard. You may well believe that since I like to post pics of the wild mantids that that is the only mantids I have experience with. Not true. Most people here like to see pictures whether it is a wild tendedora or an idolomantis. That may not hold true for you but I didn't like how you brought it up in the context that that was all I have fed crickets to or have kept. I've kept many speices and if they were of the size to eat crickets that was their primary food source. I can recall having issues related to crickets only a couple times. So anyime I have mantids that can take a cricket, that will be the primary food source regardless of the scare tactics that float around on this board. In my experience, and I stress that only in my experience I have found crickets to be fine almost all of the time. So therefore, I will continue to tell others they are ok. Notice though that most times when I mention them I do add that you have to take care of the cricket properly. But at least in the herp world people undestand that. Doesn't seem so in this hobby as much.

 

[Christian]

I'm not sure about why Idolomantis does so bad with crickets. I didn't try it by myself, so I only have to rely on the experience of others, and that are many. Anyway, I don't think that crickets as such are the problem, if they will get wild ones there would be certainly no issue about them (besides that Idolomantis wouldn't take them except from a pincer). More probably it's a sign of the bad quality of mass-reared crickets. Some mantids wouldn't bother as much as others and if you add unfavorable conditions it may explain why some species show a worse reaction than others. The problem may lie in the fact that crickets are the cheapest food source. As with any "product", quality depends on price, and as long as people are not willing to pay more for the food of their pets one shouldn't wonder that you get only cr@p. I have already heard of herp guys suffering losses due to crickets, and this raises the question how bad this food source really is if even reptiles die.

My opinion really is that one shouldn't recommend crickets to newbies and I will continue to intervene if I have the impression that this was done without explaining the problems. It is one thing what you do personally and what to tell others. There are many things I practise in the hobby that I wouldn't recommend to everyone.

Maybe one of the problems also lies in what one means when talking about breeding. If you try to keep your stocks clean and healthy for years you may well be cautious what you feed to your mantids, because massive losses cannot be overcome by buying new specimens, particularly if you are one of the few or the only one who has this bloodline. If you have to add unknown specimens to your stock, you can skip it. What you got then is some mixed up bloodline without special characteristics. You will think twice then about what you feed to your mantids.

On the other hand, if you don't care about origin or bloodlines then loosing some specimens to bad food may be not as severe as you always get new specimens from somewhere. Most species persist like this in the hobby, particularly Pseudocreobotra, Phyllocrania and Parasphendale.

And then there are people who don't breed but only raise for one generation and have always to buy new specimens to get some pairings at all.

 

[Rick]

I'm not sure about why Idolomantis does so bad with crickets. I didn't try it by myself, so I only have to rely on the experience of others, and that are many. Anyway, I don't think that crickets as such are the problem, if they will get wild ones there would be certainly no issue about them (besides that Idolomantis wouldn't take them except from a pincer). More probably it's a sign of the bad quality of mass-reared crickets. Some mantids wouldn't bother as much as others and if you add unfavorable conditions it may explain why some species show a worse reaction than others. The problem may lie in the fact that crickets are the cheapest food source. As with any "product", quality depends on price, and as long as people are not willing to pay more for the food of their pets one shouldn't wonder that you get only cr@p. I have already heard of herp guys suffering losses due to crickets, and this raises the question how bad this food source really is if even reptiles die. My opinion really is that one shouldn't recommend crickets to newbies and I will continue to intervene if I have the impression that this was done without explaining the problems. It is one thing what you do personally and what to tell others. There are many things I practise in the hobby that I wouldn't recommend to everyone.

Maybe one of the problems also lies in what one means when talking about breeding. If you try to keep your stocks clean and healthy for years you may well be cautious what you feed to your mantids, because massive losses cannot be overcome by buying new specimens, particularly if you are one of the few or the only one who has this bloodline. If you have to add unknown specimens to your stock, you can skip it. What you got then is some mixed up bloodline without special characteristics. You will think twice then about what you feed to your mantids.

On the other hand, if you don't care about origin or bloodlines then loosing some specimens to bad food may be not as severe as you always get new specimens from somewhere. Most species persist like this in the hobby, particularly Pseudocreobotra, Phyllocrania and Parasphendale.

And then there are people who don't breed but only raise for one generation and have always to buy new specimens to get some pairings at all.

Great points. I think also that with the majority of people using crickets you are bound to see more problems associated with them. I agree in that I myself am more particular with food if I have something I really don't want to lose. But overall I believe for typical hobbyist that crickets are fine if the crickets themselves are taken care of. Too many people just buy them from a local place and toss them in with the mantids. I myself will get them from a reputable source and then not use them for several days whle I observe and feed them a variety of foods.