Superworms..... super yucky?

[Reikimama]

Soooooo....  I broke down & went to Petco today to see what I could find for my L3 European in the way of nibbles....  Its slim pickins right now for wild caught food, cold & rainy & very un-summer-like....The 1 jar of FF they had was left from the LAST time I was there about 3 weeks ago.... It looked like a ghost town in there... Besides, they don't seem a very practical purchase anymore, since it will eat 20+ in a feeding & then look at me like, "so when's dinner?"   :wacko:  

Since I am super cautious about crickets ( & frankly, don't want to constantly hear them) my choice fell to meal worms or SUPER worms? Ok.... I looked at them, they hadn't been there long, they were all alive & wriggling & creeping me out... the small size seemed ok to try & they were fairly cheap. I don't ever remember hearing anything bad about using them for feeders. So I bought a cup. He/she was hungry & went for it pretty quickly, wrangled it just fine, took one bite & threw it down. And then wanted NOTHING to do with it. Ok.... so.... anybody have any input on this? The cashier said I could return them if it didn't eat them... should I give it one more shot? I was only able to catch one teeny little fly since then, which it INHALED. Have I created a spoiled toddler because I have been serving up lots of delicious moths almost exclusively? Not sure what I should do....

 

[izbiggs]

@Reikimama Do they have wax worms at that Petco? If so, you can tear one in half and try offering up the gooey insides! They love that. Or you could try beheading the super worm and putting a dab of honey on the goo to get your mantis to start and keep on eating!  

 

[CosbyArt]

@Reikimama Indeed most mantid species outgrow fruit flies at the second instar L2, or higher, and is not a appropriate feeder. Ideally feeders are at least twice the mantids head width, and no larger than 1/3 of the mantids body length.

I've used many thousands of crickets as feeders (I've purchased nearly 9,000 that I remember (as I often buy in 2,000 quantities or so)) for many hundreds of mantids (and other pets) the last few years with maybe only one problem. I say maybe, as I can not confirm that it was a cricket related incident even then, and in all likelihood was not cricket related.

There are many senior keepers that have been in the hobby for a decade or more that still use crickets and have not had issues either, Rick, Peter, and others I'm sure too. It is however up to you, but I'm glad I did not buy into the bad feeder stories that get passed around by non-cricket users as "facts".

Regarding any worms (mealworms, wax worms, super worms, etc) I have not had any mantids that would eat them, and only a couple that would try them. If your mantid tossed it after taking a bite that is a sign it tastes bad, which is likely due to the worm being in the sawdust cup with nothing to eat.

Feeder alternatives is to buy bottle fly pupae online at BugsInCyberspace, MantisPlace, or PanTerra Pets. Besides crickets the other common feeder is cockroaches, and Dubia is likely the more common roach used. In the meantime you can capture flies, grasshoppers, moths, etc with a cheap butterfly net "toy" found at many dollar stores this time of year, or build a fly trap.

Your mantid may be spoiled, but worms are not something that they likely would bother with in nature either.

 

[Teamonger]

Almost all of my adult Chinese mantises were more then happy to eat super worms either from a cup placed in their tank or after a bit of work/training I could just hand them one with the tongs and they would be happily munching forever. I found which such a large species the black solider flies and moths were just not cutting it and they were eating me out of feeders so I swapped to supers.

As CosbyArt said it might be that the worms have nothing to eat and so are yucky and malnourished. I have mine in a cup of wheat germ (which is very cheap) and give them potatoes for moisture. You could try feeding up your worms and give it another shot perhaps.

As with meal worms getting mantises accustomed to eating meal/super worms take some work and patience and even then some of them will flat out refuse to have anything to do with them.

I'm on team no crickets. I have just had too many black death fatalities to take the chance anymore even when I'm using the virus resistant banded crickets and have not seen any warning signs in my colony. Not using crickets sure makes mantis parenting way harder however  

 

[Ocelotbren]

@Reikimama Did you end up having any luck with the worms?  If not, what did you end up doing?  I only tried silkworms once with my Chinese nymphs and I was never able to get them to take one.  Since then I have used flies mostly with a few crickets and moths here and there.

 

[Reikimama]

@izbiggs, @Teamonger , @CosbyArt , @Ocelotbren... thank you for the advice! Update time! 

I tried feeding the superworms, he still hated them. Luckily,  the weather warmed back up after a day or two, and there have been plenty of moths & small butterflies to catch for him. He is definitely a he. He is now full grown, and also apparently actually a Chinese Mantis. Through his last several molts, I was pretty sure of the sex, because of the number of sections in his abdomen... but I couldn't be positive of his species until he reached adult, because of all his color changes. It was a little hard to tell for a while. Now I'm wondering how much time we have left with him. And also, if I'm feeding him small to medium sized moths, how much & how often to feed him. Anyone have any input for me? I thought I read somewhere you can extend the life of the male by controlling the temperature & feeding them less.... but I also want him to be comfortable & happy! 

 

[Connor]

Wow, he is absolutely stunning!

 

[Reikimama]

@Connor Thank you, I agree!   I take lots of pictures, lol. Here's a collage I made .... from the first day I found him & after each molt.... I'll have to make an updated one soon

 

[Connor]

Geez, never knew Chinese mantis were so pretty... I've been missing out. Unfortunately my European(or maybe Carolina) passed away recently from a mismolt. I was really looking forward to seeing how he looked as an adult. Anyways this gave me an idea to take pictures after each molt for my mantids!

 

[Serle]

Not only are they large and incharge  they also are very gregarious and have very indivdualistic personalities . .... Nice looking L7 ...  S

 

[Krissim Klaw]

Now I'm wondering how much time we have left with him. And also, if I'm feeding him small to medium sized moths, how much & how often to feed him. Anyone have any input for me? I thought I read somewhere you can extend the life of the male by controlling the temperature & feeding them less.... but I also want him to be comfortable & happy! 

Feeding them will not effect their lifespan unless you feed so little they starve. Boy's naturally regulate their intake and will reguarly drop partially eaten food or go off it for a couple days as they only need enough energy to fly around and hunt for the ladies.

In order to extend their life you have to drop the temperatures. This slows everything down, hence they will eat even less. I would not suggest doing this for a pet as you aren't likely to get much enjoyment out of sluggish boy. The only reason people typically do something like this is when they are trying to keep a boy alive long enough for females that are behind their males in the growth/age department.

On the bright side I've found often the boys of this species can live fairly comparable lifespans with the girls. With mantises it is about enjoying the time you do have not fixating on the time you don't.

 

[Nanodot]

Feed him as much as he wants to eat, IMHO.  

Superworms are basically huge adult mealworms.  I tried to feed small mealworms to my L4 Chinese in their tank.   Newbie mistake.  The mantids had no interest.   The mealworms burrowed under the substrate and grew into two inch long carnivorous monsters.  I was removing them from the tank for three months as they surfaced to attempt to pupate.   It was disgusting, and dangerous to the mantids.  

I know some mantids like them, and they are a great food in theory.  Just feed them in a controlled way that doesn't let them loose in your vivarium...