Surprise Ootheca! Panic!

[Tman]

I love the little stripes that Chinese have on their "noses". :lol: Their ootheca are HUGE too! Smallest I've seen is about the size of a quarter around, and they usually hatch in high numbers so be prepared! The only thing that concerned me was about was the spot you described. If you could post a pic we can get you a definite ID.

She does not have a spot. Someone asked me if she had a certain spot to see if it is a european and I told them she does not. you must have gotten confused.

 

[LauraMG]

She does not have a spot. Someone asked me if she had a certain spot to see if it is a european and I told them she does not. you must have gotten confused.

Oops! :wacko: :blink: Sorry!

 

[PhilinYuma]

Kova

Tman:

Somewhere above, you say,"But someone else stated that I could still give them a diapause. I would imagine it would be alright seeing as they live in Minnesota with it's frigid winters" This a very common but mistaken idea of what diapause is. Since an understanding of the process improves our husbandry, this may help:

Diapause is a strategy for protecting some insects at a vulnerable period of their lives. It can help pupae overwinter in cold winters, reduce the growth of some larvae, like some grasshopper nymphs, in the dry period before the rains, when the grass withers. In mantids, it occurs in those that habitually overwinter as ooths in a freezing or near freezing environment. As the days grow shorter (reduced photoperiod) the female develops a hormone (diapause hormone, that was easy) from her suboesophageal ganglion (can't win 'em all) that affects the development of the eggs after they are laid. The eggs have below average amount of glycogen (stored sugar) and more sorbitol that acts as antifreeze and also delays development.

Effectively, the eggs are in suspended animation until the temperature drops into the F30s. This breaks the diapause (the sorbitol and glycerol are converted to glycogen, among other changes), but the cold temperature also slows down the eggs' metabolism (quiescence) and they remain in the gastrulation stage until the warm weather returns.

So:

The only diapausing mantis that I can think of in the hobby, offhand, is Mantis religiosa. Older female nymphs should be exposed to a gradually reduced photoperiod if you want to stimulate diapause. It must be broken, though by a period (perhaps a month) either outside or in the fridge, or the eggs won't develop.

Ooths of tropical species and those that live along the southern border of the US where it never freezes. Should be left at room temperature.

Ooths of US mantids that normally live in freezing temperatures during the winter can either be hatched at room temperature, or given a period of quiescence in the 'fridge'. Some folks claim that such ooths will yield weak and sickly nymphs if allowed to hatch at room temperature. Such ooths can also be allowed to overwinter outside.

 

[GreenOasis]

You probably don't need to worry TOO much about the angle, just so long as the "bumpy" parts are facing down (that's where the eggs are and that's where the nymphs will come out, using gravity to help them.) And, I'm no expert by any means, but I don't think they'll need all that humidity while they're being refrigerated...you can probably leave the moss out until you're ready to actually hatch them.

Oh, and no, Chinese don't need to have a diapause, but it won't hurt either! Sorry about the confusion. (But...diapause will give you some time to get prepared for the little ones, as I hear that Chinese tend to have LOTS of babies!) If you DO end up with a lot more than expected, you can always message me! I'll take a few...or trade for the aforementioned fruit fly culture you'll be needing!

-Carey Kurtz-

 

[GreenOasis]

Kova

Tman:

Somewhere above, you say,"But someone else stated that I could still give them a diapause. I would imagine it would be alright seeing as they live in Minnesota with it's frigid winters" This a very common but mistaken idea of what diapause is. Since an understanding of the process improves our husbandry, this may help:

Diapause is a strategy for protecting some insects at a vulnerable period of their lives. It can help pupae overwinter in cold winters, reduce the growth of some larvae, like some grasshopper nymphs, in the dry period before the rains, when the grass withers. In mantids, it occurs in those that habitually overwinter as ooths in a freezing or near freezing environment. As the days grow shorter (reduced photoperiod) the female develops a hormone (diapause hormone, that was easy) from her suboesophageal ganglion (can't win 'em all) that affects the development of the eggs after they are laid. The eggs have below average amount of glycogen (stored sugar) and more sorbitol that acts as antifreeze and also delays development.

Effectively, the eggs are in suspended animation until the temperature drops into the F30s. This breaks the diapause (the sorbitol and glycerol are converted to glycogen, among other changes), but the cold temperature also slows down the eggs' metabolism (quiescence) and they remain in the gastrulation stage until the warm weather returns.

So:

The only diapausing mantis that I can think of in the hobby, offhand, is Mantis religiosa. Older female nymphs should be exposed to a gradually reduced photoperiod if you want to stimulate diapause. It must be broken, though by a period (perhaps a month) either outside or in the fridge, or the eggs won't develop.

Ooths of tropical species and those that live along the southern border of the US where it never freezes. Should be left at room temperature.

Ooths of US mantids that normally live in freezing temperatures during the winter can either be hatched at room temperature, or given a period of quiescence in the 'fridge'. Some folks claim that such ooths will yield weak and sickly nymphs if allowed to hatch at room temperature. Such ooths can also be allowed to overwinter outside.

HUNH...! Like I said, learn something new here everyday! I just kinda' thought that "diapause" was like the Mantid term for "brumate" or "hibernate"....Gotta' love the English language....so precise!

Thanks for the enlightenment...now I know just a little bit more about how to take care of my younguns!

-Carey Kurtz-

 

[Tman]

Kova

Tman:

Somewhere above, you say,"But someone else stated that I could still give them a diapause. I would imagine it would be alright seeing as they live in Minnesota with it's frigid winters" This a very common but mistaken idea of what diapause is. Since an understanding of the process improves our husbandry, this may help:

Diapause is a strategy for protecting some insects at a vulnerable period of their lives. It can help pupae overwinter in cold winters, reduce the growth of some larvae, like some grasshopper nymphs, in the dry period before the rains, when the grass withers. In mantids, it occurs in those that habitually overwinter as ooths in a freezing or near freezing environment. As the days grow shorter (reduced photoperiod) the female develops a hormone (diapause hormone, that was easy) from her suboesophageal ganglion (can't win 'em all) that affects the development of the eggs after they are laid. The eggs have below average amount of glycogen (stored sugar) and more sorbitol that acts as antifreeze and also delays development.

Effectively, the eggs are in suspended animation until the temperature drops into the F30s. This breaks the diapause (the sorbitol and glycerol are converted to glycogen, among other changes), but the cold temperature also slows down the eggs' metabolism (quiescence) and they remain in the gastrulation stage until the warm weather returns.

So:

The only diapausing mantis that I can think of in the hobby, offhand, is Mantis religiosa. Older female nymphs should be exposed to a gradually reduced photoperiod if you want to stimulate diapause. It must be broken, though by a period (perhaps a month) either outside or in the fridge, or the eggs won't develop.

Ooths of tropical species and those that live along the southern border of the US where it never freezes. Should be left at room temperature.

Ooths of US mantids that normally live in freezing temperatures during the winter can either be hatched at room temperature, or given a period of quiescence in the 'fridge'. Some folks claim that such ooths will yield weak and sickly nymphs if allowed to hatch at room temperature. Such ooths can also be allowed to overwinter outside.

So This all means I can refrigerate her ootheca until spring?

Also, she does experience reduced photoperiods because she is in a south facing windowsill. I have a outcropping on an outer wall of my house with 3 windows in it, 2 at an angle (I forget what you call this structure) She doesn't get extra light because the place she is in doesn't usually have the lights on at night.

So I will do as I stated before and make the enclosure I mentioned and spray the moss 3 times a week, right?

And then in spring I will take it out and set it up to hatch.

 

[GreenOasis]

Sounds like you'll do fine, however you choose to do it!

-Carey Kurtz-

 

[Tman]

I made the proper container and now have the ootheca in the fridge. I will have to make sure to mist it often enough now. I may have another ootheca on the way as she has quite an appetite. 3 cricket over last night, and she is hunting the 2 I just put in there.

I think the ootheca she laid sounds small from what I hear. It was a little over the size of a quarter in diameter. Probably because I was feeding her like a non-pregnant adult.

 

[chenchen21621]

I will get pics as soon as I have another person around to take the pics while I hold her so you all can get a good look, and while holding her I can take off the lid of the cage to get a good pic of the ootheca too. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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[PhilinYuma]

I made the proper container and now have the ootheca in the fridge. I will have to make sure to mist it often enough now. I may have another ootheca on the way as she has quite an appetite. 3 cricket over last night, and she is hunting the 2 I just put in there.

I think the ootheca she laid sounds small from what I hear. It was a little over the size of a quarter in diameter. Probably because I was feeding her like a non-pregnant adult.

As Carey said, mate, you're doing fine! Don't get hung up on how often you mist the ooth. Remember that in the winter, the relative humidity drops with the temperature, until it is pretty much like the inside of the fridge. I knew a guy who sold ooths on Ebay, who used to dump his ooths in a bucket of water once a week, so it takes a lot to kill them off!

The ooth is exactly the size that it's supposed to be, too. They come in all sizes, and sometimes get smaller as the female nears the end of her egg laying career. Good luck and keep us up to date.