the perfect Idolomantis tank/conditions?

[Christian]

- Big is beautiful regarding Idolomantis cages. The larger the better. They can be kept communally, but should be separated for the adult molt.

- No wire mesh, as the tarsal claws will break off! Just synthetic material.

- Forget the grass, use highly ramified branches or small living or dead treelets. Living plants are dificult to cultivate, though, as they do not well with the rather strong spots needed.

- The T differences should not be high between top and bottom, and around 30-32°C bay day. 20°C by night is ok.

Regards,

Christian

 

[captainmerkin]

lots of good stuff here thanks all..

I will try and post a picture my friend took in Goa and see what you all think it is as I am 100% convinced its a Idolomantis as it is identical to the large picture posted and same display colours etc..

from what posted before I think that I should try and raise some large branches up into the mid/top of the tank and have some kind of planters there in/on them with hanging plants coming down, probably have these built into the fake cliff wall to give them more support.

will forget the grass and think more of a moss carpet if possible though those temps are a bit high I think for moss, not sure what else would be good as a floor covering plant.

also bushes at the ends will have to be planned out a little better but I am currently sorting out some day lilly cuttings that bulk up fairly well and go up and out with lots of hanging spots (though once again temps too high?)

gorr the ideas are there but tricky to work it out so well, though if it doesnt go according to plan then I would be able to use it for something else I guess.

 

[Christian]

I do not use plants in the Empusid terraria. The temps are just too high. Although I use plants in most of my other cages. So, plants and Idolomantis are a tricky stuff. Most don't support it. What would go, depending on the cage type, is Schefflera, Ficus benjamini, Ipomoea spec. and Acacia sp. (if available). You don't need plants as ground cover. Bare soil and dead leaves should be enough. Big NO-NOs are mosses, epiphytes, bromeliads and stem succulents. As I said, I do not use living plants in this species.

Regards,

Christian

 

[captainmerkin]

that my big concern as I really wish to make this tank look awesome, live plants are a must, though obviously thats a whole bloody field of research on its own!

Certainly I am beginning to think that this is going to be very tricky, but certainly some things can be set up nicely still, sand and mud mix and see what I can grown eh..

perhaps certain areas of shade may be a possibility with plants out of direct heat light but still...

 

[Asa]

There really is no 'perfect' conditions of keeping a mantid of any kind, as perfect is defined likewise by a 0 mortality rate, which, especially with an Idolomantis, is not going to happen.

 

[Christian]

Well, even in nature the mortality rate is higher than 0%. Most times it is even considerably high. So this is not a good comparison, really. However, the natural conditions cannot be fit perfectly well in a terrarium, but the point is, that they don't have to. You have just to copy those conditions which are important for the respective species.

The mortality in Idolomantis is not higher than in other species - in fact, it is lower than in Hierodula . The reason for the losses I read of here is to be found in wrong conditions, wrong food, and wrong enclosures. I have seen some pictures throughout the forum showing absolutely wrong conditions for Idolomantis. In the US especially there is some "tradition" in using small tanks for single specimens. This may work for Tenodera, Hierodula and other aggressive species, but Empusids, for instance, do not well if treated like this. Here, larger cages are better. I have written somewhere else that I keep almost all species communally with only a few losses, even adult females. The advantage of a larger enclosure outweighs the risk of cannibalism. I know everyone has his techniques and some may not favor communal breeding. However, I think my success with this species proves me right in this case.

Best wishes,

Christian

 

[hibiscusmile]

Christian, what would be an acceptable size enclosure for this mantis?

 

[Christian]

Minimum 30 x 30 x 60 (L x W x H) cm for 15 L1 or 3-4 subadults until the last molt (for the last molt to adulthood the same space is required for one individual). I use at moment two glass terraria with 80 x 45 x 55 cm and 30 x 40 x 100 cm, respectively. I'm going to built a 120 x 30 x 60 cm terrarium of some styrofoam-related but more robust stuff soon. This material isolates better. A collegue of mine also use mini plastic glass-houses of about 150 x 200 x 170 cm. However, an enclosure like this is really huge and not applicable to everyone... :roll:

I propose any enclosure equal or larger than about 50 x 50 x 50 cm.

Regards,

Christian

 

[Asa]

Well, even in nature the mortality rate is higher than 0%. Most times it is even considerably high. So this is not a good comparison, really. However, the natural conditions cannot be fit perfectly well in a terrarium, but the point is, that they don't have to. You have just to copy those conditions which are important for the respective species. The mortality in Idolomantis is not higher than in other species - in fact, it is lower than in Hierodula . The reason for the losses I read of here is to be found in wrong conditions, wrong food, and wrong enclosures. I have seen some pictures throughout the forum showing absolutely wrong conditions for Idolomantis. In the US especially there is some "tradition" in using small tanks for single specimens. This may work for Tenodera, Hierodula and other aggressive species, but Empusids, for instance, do not well if treated like this. Here, larger cages are better. I have written somewhere else that I keep almost all species communally with only a few losses, even adult females. The advantage of a larger enclosure outweighs the risk of cannibalism. I know everyone has his techniques and some may not favor communal breeding. However, I think my success with this species proves me right in this case.

Best wishes,

Christian

Yes, Idolomantis do like large containers. What I'm saying, is that not even 'Nature' is completely perfect for the mantis itself. It is benefitted to fit all creatures, not just mantids, so with the varied life forms, is stuck to providing the best it can. In single care, we can do better than Nature. But still not perfect.

 

[captainmerkin]

very pleased to hear that you are doing well with communally kept mantis, this is how I would like to do things myself!

got to admit that 50- 100 gallon tank does not sound big enough from what you are saying but thats about as big as I can get it without buying a new house

do you think that an oothcaes worth of idolomantis would be able to live (reasonably well at least) in something 50 gal - 100? I will be ensuring that there are numerous hides and hanging areas for them so they will have the option to keep out of each others way

 

[Christian]

We in Old Europe are just familiar with the metric system. :lol:

If you tell me how many liters 50-100 gallons are, I can tell you if it's enough.

Greetings,

Christian

 

[ThorEH]

I think a US Gallon is app. 3,7 liters, så 100 gallons should then be 370liters.

After your post about Idolomantis community, I'm considering using a 400 liter aquarium as a tank for my 5 Idolomantis, that should be enough ?

 

[Christian]

Yeah, that should be really enough, as long as the ventilation is sufficient. You maybe have to cut out some of the glass.

Regards,

Christian

 

[Asa]

I think a US Gallon is app. 3,7 liters, så 100 gallons should then be 370liters.After your post about Idolomantis community, I'm considering using a 400 liter aquarium as a tank for my 5 Idolomantis, that should be enough ?

So you would like to keep them together?

 

[ThorEH]

I think a US Gallon is app. 3,7 liters, så 100 gallons should then be 370liters.After your post about Idolomantis community, I'm considering using a 400 liter aquarium as a tank for my 5 Idolomantis, that should be enough ?

So you would like to keep them together?

Yeah, that would be the coolest

They are now l2, and I keep them together. No problem so far...

Edit : 1 of them moulted today, so 4 are l2 and 1 l3

 

[captainmerkin]

ok managed to get a picture from my friend of one of the many mantids she found in goa... had to host it elsewhere because of work filters

it was stated that they cannot be idolomantis by christian and thoreh I belive? please identify.

 

[Christian]

:shock:

Now come on! You're kidding! You don't want to tell me this picture was made in India, don't you! :wink:

I absolutely cannot believe it! The picture really shows an Idolomantis male, but it simply cannot be wild-caught in India! No, no, no. Never! :shock: :shock:

Regards,

Christian

 

[Djoul]

My god... so beautiful

Defenatly, when I will have the money...

I read all the topic, thank you Christian for all the information.

I heard that the blepharopsis breeding is quite the same than blepharopsis ?

Please Christian, what do you think about that ? For me this mantis is a myth, so I can not beleive that... because blepharopsis are not so difficult to breed, and Idolomantis breeding is a legend for french :roll:

Thank you for your response ! :wink:

 

[Christian]

Blepharopsis and Idolomantis have to be bred differently, though slightly similar regarding container and interior. However, Blepharopsis needs higher temperatures and acccepts a wider variety of food. Breeding Idolomantis mostly fails due to difficulties with getting them paired.

If you can read German, there was an article two collegues and myself wrote about Idolomantis for the "Terraria" journal, maybe you manage to get it in France.

At the moment, I am merely interested in clarifying the status of the specimen from that photo!

Greets,

Christian

 

[Djoul]

Thank you very much

let´s talk about the picture ^^

You are not convinced that it is in India ?

I think too, I never heard that idolomantis are from Asia, but Africa. :?