To breed or not to breed? (ghosts)

[Velvet]

So, for starters, this is my first time keeping this species and would be my first time breeding as well.  I had a male (Casper) molt successfully to adult about two weeks ago, and on Wednesday, one of the subadult females (Banshee) also had a perfect final molt.

Assuming Casper can hold out for a little while, I am interested in trying to mate them.  I have a few questions, though, that the guides I have read on the subject haven't answered. 

First, in regards to inbreeding.  I have not been able to find much info on inbreeding depression, especially with regards to this species, and I am aware that both local wild populations and existing captive populations are certainly inbred to some extent.  Should I breed these?  I only ask because Casper and Banshee are almost certainly direct siblings (obtained from the same source at the same instar) and would like to hear a more experienced breeder's thoughts on the matter.

My second question is in regards to oothecae - specifically, what to do with them after laying?  My first instinct is to sell or trade to someone who is better able to care for a large number of nymphs, but I recognize that ghosts are one of the more common species in the hobby and I am unsure how much demand there is for their ooths.  I worry that I will end up swimming in nymphs as a result of them hatching before I can arrange homes for them - perhaps I'm completely wrong, many people want these, and this is an absurd concern.  I simply don't know.  

 

[Logan_123]

I think I can help with the ooth question, I believe that ghost mantis ooth don't hatch to many nymphs. And they are communal so if you are worrying about having individual enclosures it should be fine. You can have them in the same enclosure as long as they have some room

 

[CosbyArt]

@Velvet Having your mantids live on in their babies is a great feeling, some keepers have long lineages of their favorites too with many generations.

Inbreeding is of little concern in insects as they are not mammals and do not experience the same possible issues. The only species I have heard of with possible issues commonly are the orchid mantis (Hymenopus coronatus). For that matter the majority of mantid species were inbreed years ago and largely related, and some cultured species are actually from only a single female and male. Or take for instance the Brunner's mantis where the females do not mate (males are extremely rare) and females produce offspring via parthenogenesis, and all the babies are female clones of the mother.

Of course some species have new "blood" from wild specimens, especially the local species like Stagmomantis carolina and Tenodera sinensis in my case. It is a good idea to source fresh specimens for future mating, for a greater genetic diversity as possible, but you should not have any issues with siblings for several generations. The largest problem I have read about in closed generation breeding is weaker nymphs.

For ooths you will need to let it dry and harden before you touch or move it. Personally I let ooths harden for 48hours or more before moving it into a incubation container, or sell/trade off the ooths. The ooths will hatch in 6-10 weeks afterwards, and each ooth will have 20-60 nymphs emerge (caresheet). So if you are worried about having too many nymphs you would likely be better off keeping two of the ooths and selling/trading off the others (my last female Ghost (Phyllocrania paradoxa) had nine ooths total).

 

[Velvet]

Thank you both for answering.  I had thought that if inbreeding was particularly problematic, information about it would be more widespread, but I didn't just want to assume that without at least asking.  If Casper is still doing well by the time Banshee begins calling, I will probably go ahead and make an attempt with them.

 

[CosbyArt]

Thank you both for answering.  I had thought that if inbreeding was particularly problematic, information about it would be more widespread, but I didn't just want to assume that without at least asking.  If Casper is still doing well by the time Banshee begins calling, I will probably go ahead and make an attempt with them.

Your welcome, and it is always worth asking to avoid problems. If you haven't already read the guide by Rick on mating mantids, give it read to see the basics. Of course if you have any other questions feel free to ask. Best of luck in your attempt.

 

[Velvet]

Just popping back in to say thanks for the help and encouragement again.  

I was keeping Casper a bit warmer than usual and feeding Banshee every day.  I went out and bought a bigger terrarium tank and filled it with a fair amount of (sterilized) sticks.  Thursday, I noticed her abdomen pulsating, so I moved Casper to the mating tank and let him settle in for about 15 minutes before putting Banshee in.  He noticed her immediately and hopped on (literally, he flew the last couple of centimeters) within minutes while I held her attention with a roach.

After that, she really just let him do his thing.  It took a few tries for him to connect, but he did and they stayed connected for a little over three hours before he fluttered off safely and I removed him from the tank.  Now, I guess I just need to wait for some ooths - maybe even get some fertile ones!  Fingers crossed!

 

[CosbyArt]

@Velvet Sounds like your original question has now been answered by the mantids themselves, and glad to hear it went well. Best of luck with your ooths.

 

[Heidispice]

Awesome Velvet! I want to hear how it turns out, will you keep us posted? 

 

[Velvet]

Awesome Velvet! I want to hear how it turns out, will you keep us posted? 

Absolutely!  Banshee laid her first ooth on Friday - we actually caught her in the act and got some video.  She unfortunately chose the mesh roof of her enclosure for it.  Today, I transferred it to an incubation enclosure.  I was concerned that prying it from the mesh would damage it, but it was really not in a good place for hatching.  Between my girlfriend and I, we managed to get it loose enough to slip something under it and pop it off cleanly.

I've read a couple of different, conflicting pieces of information on incubation.  The care sheet on this board says keep it at room temperature and mist indirectly twice a week, while other caresheets have specified higher temperatures (80 Fahrenheit) and 70% humidity.  It's currently being kept at just above room temperature and 50% humidity - I'm hoping this is ok.  My next step is just to watch and wait and hope that it's fertile. 

 

[Heidispice]

Congrats on the first ooth! My very first mantis arrived this week in the mail and it's a ghost! I'm absolutely amazed and love him (I don't know yet if it's a male or female, maybe a male). I can't wait to get more. I also have 3 tarantula slings and a few millipedes. I'm pretty certain already that mantids will be my favorite. 

Please post pictures when yours hatch!

 

[Velvet]

The first ootheca hatched out 7 nymphs on Saturday after incubating for 56 days.  The next morning, 22 more hatched out of the same ootheca.  No more had emerged as of this morning, but I am continuing to incubate it just in case there are any stragglers.

 

[Connor]

Amazing! I have 8 ghosts coming in the mail for this Wednesday, so this is getting me pumped haha

 

[Sarah K]

CONGRATS ON YOUR NEW BABIES!

 

[Mystymantis]

Congratulations on your baby ghosts! That's so exciting that they hatched for you. Good luck with your new babies.

Sadly my attempt at breeding ghosts failed and though I have multiple ooths, none are fertile. Oh well, guess I have to try again next time I have ghosts.