toxic prey?

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lancaster1313

Likebugs (site changed my name😐)
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I found my nymph in the wild, and have been feeding it flies and moths also found outside. I would like it to try some new things. Are there certain things that are toxic to mantids, maybe a list of dos and don'ts. I tried searching the words "toxic" and "toxic prey", not much luck there. I am aware that some "bugs" out there have nasty defenses.

 
If a bug you pick is brightly colored, has a strong smell, or secretes something it is probably not a good food item. Mantids know when they start to eat a bug whether or not they should and they will drop it. If you stick to flies, moths, grasshopper types you should be fine.

 
I usually don't worry about prey that are potentially toxic. The mantids know what to eat and what not to eat. If it is something the mantis does not agree with, they disguard it.

 
Thanks, I like a creature who knows what is good for it. It just molted this morning in the wee hours. How long should I wait before feeding, it seems hyper and restless this morning, all walking around in its container.

 
Ditto! could give water though. and they say to stay away from ants, and for me....centipedes, spelled wrong? downloaded spell check,
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but u get the picture.

 
You know, I've wanted to try feeding a Monarch butterfly just to test it out (for the larger mantids of course). It's something that a mantid would like to capture and eat (because it's tempting for them), but yet at the same time, the Monarch is toxic. I'm thinking along the same lines - mantid grabs Monarch and takes a bite out of it, and after a few bites notices the toxicity and drops the butterfly. The problem with this is that I'm not fond of feeding something that beautiful to mantids. I guess I better look for freshly road-killed Monarchs.

 
I have seen wild chinese females capture and eat Monarch butterflies. They eat the body, and drop the wings. I have been able to actully locate some mantids this way. Just look above where the pile of wings are.

 
It's probably stupid, but even though I saw grasshoppers being suggested many times, I worried about feeding them to my mantis. Almost every time I catch grasshoppers, they vomit up something. When I was a kid a couple of people told me they spit tobacco juice in your eye, lol. I don't believe that it is tobacco juice but I was wary of it anyway. I am feeding him his first grasshopper nymph today, he seems afraid of it and wont take his eyes off it. It is funny to watch though.

 
That juice is just digested plant material, it is not toxic.

Some grasshoppers are toxic, such as the Eastern Lubber grasshopper, but you can tell because they emit a foul odor when picked up. (They make great pets though! :3)

 
That juice is just digested plant material, it is not toxic.

Some grasshoppers are toxic, such as the Eastern Lubber grasshopper, but you can tell because they emit a foul odor when picked up. (They make great pets though! :3)
The neighbors are really going to laugh at me now. I'll be picking through the grass and foliage as usual, but now I will be sniffing what I find! :lol: Are eastern lubbers the big frightening yellow and red ones, (black with red stripe as nymphs)?

 
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I give mine bees that I find that seem to liking the sap that is all over my pine trees and hope thats not toxic either and seems alot of sap or sticky substances are all over them and the bushy pine leaves!

 
I give mine bees that I find that seem to liking the sap that is all over my pine trees and hope thats not toxic either and seems alot of sap or sticky substances are all over them and the bushy pine leaves!
Have your mantids ever been stung?

 
No have not had one any get stung but have had maybe one or two in the past get stung but still manage to eat the bees and have no problems feed bees to them!

 
A couple of thoughts about "toxic prey".

A large insect like an eastern lubber emits enough poison through its spiracles to kill the occasional small bird. Birds will also sometimes become ill after eating Monarch butterflies, though some species are apparently becoming resistant to the toxin in the perennial war between attackers and defenders (some ground squirrels are reputed to be immune to rattlesnake bites).

Toxic or noxious insects, though, tend not to kill other insects or spiders partly, perhaps, because spiders and predatory insects tend to eat their prey bit by bit instead of swallowing it whole like a bird does. However, the taste is often so distasteful (yes I know) that the insect predator hurls and avoids similar insects in the future.

Now here's the problem. A naive predator will snatch a noxious (evil tasting) insect and kill it before realizing its mistake (this has been described as social altruism by some theorists
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) but will thereafter avoid specimens of the same species. How does it do that? It uses warning (aposematic) coloration, involving a combination of all or two of the colors, black, red and yellow. You learned this stuff in high school, right? Sometimes, two noxious insects occurring in the same environment and showing the same warning coloration are said to exhibit "Mullerian" mimicry. If there are two insects in the same environment (subject to the same predators) with the same aposematic coloration and one is noxious (like a wasp) and one is not, like a hover fly) then they are said to demonstrate Batesian mimicry with the yummy insect being protected by its resemblance to a a noxious one.

The problem with these well-established theories is that it is not enough for an insect to be noxious, it has to be the right color as well (many predators, such as mantids can detect color better than overall shape, and I really don't want to argue this at length), so to be successful, an insect has to be either noxious and appropriately colored or yummy and appropriately colored to match a noxious insect in its environment. It is true that a given insect's' colors vary, and a combination of noxiousness and the right color over time is a reasonable proposition, but I am a little troubled about the all-embracing nature of the theory. A notorious example is provided by the Viceroy butterfly, whose range overlaps that of the noxious Monarch and was long considered an example of Batesian mimicry. Then it was discovered that the Viceroy was toxic, and instead of disproving the theory, it merely made the Viceroy a Mullerian mimic.; it's a theory that would probably tee off Sir Karl Popper.

Well, enough of that. As Joe mentions, a number of grasshoppers will vomit up part of their crop's contents when startled. It isn't nearly as dangerous as the toxin from the eastern lubber's toxin excreted from the spiracles, but it does contain irritants sufficient to make a predator reluctant to try again. This is the famed "tobacco juice spit."

So don't worry unduly about prey insects poisoning your mantids. Noxious insects like the Monarch are eaten without problem by mantids, and if a mantis does eat anything it doesn't like.

And Likebugs, I have fed hundreds of bees to mantids without one ever being stung. I've been stung a couple of times, though! :D

 
Thanks everyone, now my nymph will have the opportunity to try a more varied diet. Perhaps I am weird, but I could imagine that bees would be a tasty treat, with their diet being sweet and all. However, if anyone has had problems with any particular creature as mantid cuisine, please let me know.

 

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