Undiscovered species?

[Meadow98684]

Just hearing about uncultured breeds like Stenophylla Lobivertex, Toxodera Denticulata, etc. makes me think of the possibility for more species we have yet to discover! The world is a big place and humans can only see so much, right? Do you guys think there are more species yet to be discovered, or do you think we've seen it all?

 

[Mime454]

Obviously there are more, but we might have already found all the really neat ones.

 

[aNisip]

All the good species are gone, some of the more exotics are just a small representation of what used to be out there....b4 man took down the forests and such...the ones we have now some might consider cool/ good, but it is what survived bc it could handle the changes in its environment and adapt....the toxodera and metals and stenophylla are nothing compared to what once was...

 

[Bug Trader]

Even with mass deforestation, pollution and just plain human error I don't think we have seen near everything out there. There are places in Africa, SouthAmerica, Asia and even Madagascar that scientists, hobbyists and collectors just cant access, whether its due to hostile territory, a very remote location or laws of tresspass we havent seen them all and never will. I will be heading to Ecuador and possibly the tip of Colombia soon and I hope to be able to document a new species, or atleast one we have never seen.

Michael

 

[Reptiliatus]

Even with mass deforestation, pollution and just plain human error I don't think we have seen near everything out there. There are places in Africa, SouthAmerica, Asia and even Madagascar that scientists, hobbyists and collectors just cant access, whether its due to hostile territory, a very remote location or laws of tresspass we havent seen them all and never will. I will be heading to Ecuador and possibly the tip of Colombia soon and I hope to be able to document a new species, or atleast one we have never seen.

Michael

Sounds like a wonderful opportunity! Good luck to you!

 

[Meadow98684]

Even with mass deforestation, pollution and just plain human error I don't think we have seen near everything out there. There are places in Africa, SouthAmerica, Asia and even Madagascar that scientists, hobbyists and collectors just cant access, whether its due to hostile territory, a very remote location or laws of tresspass we havent seen them all and never will. I will be heading to Ecuador and possibly the tip of Colombia soon and I hope to be able to document a new species, or atleast one we have never seen.

Michael

Take me with you! Hahaha good luck there, I do hope you find something. I would like to see Malaysia someday...just seems like the place to find mantids!

 

[Rick]

It would be rare to find a new species of mammal, but no so with insects.

 

[brancsikia339]

Though many new species are yet to be discovered, most (like andrewnisip said) are probably gone. Those that are extinct and were never discovered may have been even more interesting looking than toxodera, stenophylla, metallyticus, etc. These are probably the leftovers of the species that were destroyed years ago. Of course will still have many, many more species of mantis to discover, especially since most (if not all) of the remote, dense jungle that is restricted hasn't been discovered. Lets just hope that any undiscovered species out there can learn to adapt to what man is doing to it's forests

 

[Gill]

I think a wasp mimic mantis new species was found recently in Peru in this blog

http://www.cmnh.org/site/ResearchandCollections/InvertebrateZoology/peru2013.aspx

 

[MantidLord]

Obviously there are more, but we might have already found all the really neat ones.

Well that's a subjective statement.

There's little doubt that there are more, finding them may not even be a real problem. But identifying them and placing them in the right taxonomic group may be the real challenge. And getting them into culture, a whole different story.

 

[gripen]

Well that's a subjective statement.

There's little doubt that there are more, finding them may not even be a real problem. But identifying them and placing them in the right taxonomic group may be the real challenge. And getting them into culture, a whole different story.

Exactly! The mantid taxonomic system is screwed up already. If we find a new sp. it may not be new at all just miss identified.

 

[Bug Trader]

Its no different than the other invert family's, Even reptiles and amphibian taxonomy changes frequently as our technolgy advances. There will be no set record for a while even if new species are not found.

 

[brancsikia339]

I think a wasp mimic mantis new species was found recently in Peru in this blog

http://www.cmnh.org/site/ResearchandCollections/InvertebrateZoology/peru2013.aspx

Yes i saw that. The mantodea research team also discovered 2 new species of bark mantis

 

[gripen]

Its no different than the other invert family's, Even reptiles and amphibian taxonomy changes frequently as our technolgy advances. There will be no set record for a while even if new species are not found.

Except that half of the species we have documented are likely copies of of the other half. Contrary to popular belief mantid taxonomy is not often updated. I am sure Christian will correct me if I am wrong but mantid taxonomy has not really changed since the 19th century.

 

[Bug Trader]

Its the lack of interest, but as this hobby, awareness and other aspects grow it will go the way of the arachnids and others who have been reclassified so many times its a headache. The end game will be DNA, until then I just try and keep up.

Many people out there discovering and working on taxonomy start out young hobbyists, we just have to wait them out.

 

[Gill]

Except that half of the species we have documented are likely copies of of the other half. Contrary to popular belief mantid taxonomy is not often updated. I am sure Christian will correct me if I am wrong but mantid taxonomy has not really changed since the 19th century.

There is now a comprehensive phylogenetic tree that at the genus level agrees with previous taxonomists, Revisions are underway at higher than genus ranking where covergent morphology has confounded previos taxonomy. But I can't see why half of the species are likely copies? At species level the traditional morphological taxonomy I thought was good.

 

[gripen]

There is now a comprehensive phylogenetic tree that at the genus level agrees with previous taxonomists, Revisions are underway at higher than genus ranking where covergent morphology has confounded previos taxonomy. But I can't see why half of the species are likely copies? At species level the traditional morphological taxonomy I thought was good.

I apologize for my ignorance as I have not gone into taxonomy in nearly the depth you have. That being said there seems to be a considerable degree of overlap in similar sp. For example Hemiempusa and Idolomorpha being the same genus. Turns out both of these genuses (spelling?) were described by different people. This seems to be a theme for many other genuses and species.

However I could be completely wrong as my info may not be up to date.

 

[brancsikia339]

This website is for project mantodea. They are currently revising various genus and genera. According to the website, they are currently revising flower mantids, neotropical mantids, and Liturgusa.

http://mantodearesearch.com

This is the list of the phylogenetic revision from 2009

http://mantodearesearch.com/phylogeny/

 

[Gill]

I apologize for my ignorance as I have not gone into taxonomy in nearly the depth you have. That being said there seems to be a considerable degree of overlap in similar sp. For example Hemiempusa and Idolomorpha being the same genus. Turns out both of these genuses (spelling?) were described by different people. This seems to be a theme for many other genuses and species.

However I could be completely wrong as my info may not be up to date.

I see what you mean.

I thought Hemiempusa and and Idolomorpha are still different genera not synonyms http://mantodea.speciesfile.org/Common/basic/Taxa.aspx?TaxonNameID=27

is there a new paper?