vegan alternative for mantises?

[massaman]

wasting a good mantis on this cocamammy project is pointless in all fairness its like trying to feed a vegan meat and that would not work out as planned and if he wants to waste a good perfectly mantis on this then its a choice but a bad one regardless!

 

[ShieldMantid1997]

wasting a good mantis on this cocamammy project is pointless in all fairness its like trying to feed a vegan meat and that would not work out as planned and if he wants to waste a good perfectly mantis on this then its a choice but a bad one regardless!

You are entitled to an opinion, but that is YOUR opinion, not fact.

I agree, but obviously the OP has a different opinion, which is not right or wrong either.

 

[happy1892]

I have read the whole thing. I don't really understand why everyone's giving him such a hard time. I understand that it can be hard to watch people plan/do something you think is completely ridiculous and could never see yourself doing, but please, if he wants to waste his time, so be it. Let him do what he wants.

With that said, i myself do not think this will work, but keep an open mind.

I for one would love to see this work, not because i would do it, but because how cool would a fruit fly sized robot walking around with edible mantis food on it? Pretty damn cool!

+1. I have no idea how hard this will be actually! It sounds pretty hard to me though. Come on, this is just playing! And he wanted some help with that.Kayimbo it would be nice if you did not let the mantids starve.

 

[ShieldMantid1997]

+1. I have no idea how hard this will be actually! It sounds pretty hard to me though. Come on, this is just playing! And he wanted some help with that.

Exactly, with modern technology i don't think this is possible, but hey, worth a shot.

As for me, i have no clue on this subject of matter but i hope whomever does can help him out!

 

[MantidLord]

Oh my! Why are they so different from each other that some die from a sickness that others do not? Is it a small difference?

It's not that they're different. It's genetics. If a virus gets out that kills off a population that might be more genetically similar, and another population moves in (somehow) and is different enough to be resistant or survive the virus, then they can become established. Of course this is ignoring a lot of other factors in genetics, but it's a basic scheme. Basically, as long as the wild mantids aren't inbreeding as if they're in captivity, there will be a "couple" of mantids to survive and become resistant to the virus. Assuming the virus isn't extremely deadly and kills mantids before they can reproduce and spreads like wildfire.

Just like in other species and humans, some people die from a common cold while others never even get them and some just get the sniffles.

 

[happy1892]

It's not that they're different. It's genetics. If a virus gets out that kills off a population that might be more genetically similar, and another population moves in (somehow) and is different enough to be resistant or survive the virus, then they can become established. Of course this is ignoring a lot of other factors in genetics, but it's a basic scheme. Basically, as long as the wild mantids aren't inbreeding as if they're in captivity, there will be a "couple" of mantids to survive and become resistant to the virus. Assuming the virus isn't extremely deadly and kills mantids before they can reproduce and spreads like wildfire.

Just like in other species and humans, some people die from a common cold while others never even get them and some just get the sniffles.

They are different. Thanks, I understand.

 

[Meadow98684]

Hey man, let nature work it's course. Feed them flies, grasshoppers, crickets, stuff like that. Don't try to feed them broccoli. It's just not natural, ya know? That'd be like humans being fed paper.

 

[fleurdejoo]

Robots!

 

[patrickfraser]

Be sure to keep us updated on your progress. I'm very interested in what you decide to go with. Pics would be awesome.

 

[Mime454]

Maybe people can make meat without meat. A human could not grow without meat or something like that. A human baby would die without animal protein.

At least happy enough hahaha!

Is this true? Do vegans have to feed their kids meat? Or do you mean breast milk? Do vegans have problems with breast feeding?

 

[happy1892]

Is this true? Do vegans have to feed their kids meat? Or do you mean breast milk? Do vegans have problems with breast feeding?

Sorry, I do not know.

Hey man, let nature work it's course. Feed them flies, grasshoppers, crickets, stuff like that. Don't try to feed them broccoli. It's just not natural, ya know? That'd be like humans being fed paper.

He is not going to feed them something like meat or he is going to try to make something like meat?

 

[fleurdejoo]

Agreed! Photos fer sure.

 

[Norlin]

Nothing wrong with the experiment as long as it has a fallback plan. So if the mantis doesn't take the synthetic food, just toss it some flies to make sure it doesn't starve rather than stubbornly try to feed it the synthetic food until it starves.

 

[justrokkit]

First post here!

Kayimba (sp?), if you really wanted to do this, going to a mantid enthusiast forum was the completely wrong way to go. Your experiment operates on the acceptance of inevitable loss of life, and that will always be a problem to a mantid enthusiast. Another flaw (no offense intended) with your approach is that part of the passion and respect for mantids come from their feeding behavior and predatory instincts. A truly vegan mantid (independent of predatory instincts) won't move the way mantids do, won't turn and tilt its head the way mantids do, and won't even physically resemble a mantid. You'll probably get a stick insect.

The concept of evolution is inevitable. A lot of things have to die before you get what you get. Darwin's finches, for example. The berry-eaters only became berry-eaters after the whole lot of bug-eaters in that vicinity died out. What you're setting out to do is creating an entirely new species. The technology that is responsible for synthetic nutrients diverges on two concepts. With people (deviation from omnivore nature), a ton of people and a ton of money was poured into this for the prospect of not having to kill animals that have been anthropomorphized by culture. With the feeder insects to which so many people are referring, these insects are either primarily herbivore or omnivore. The nutrients they take in are much simpler, but their predators rely on the nutrients they synthesize out of the building blocks they consume. It will first take isolating and testing the biological significance of every chemical you can find in anything a mantid will consume, then cross-reference and find everything that is common to all subspecies and seeing if your cocktail will then sustain all species to full life expectancy. So you will, despite all the luck, skill, and smarts in the world, kill a whole lot of mantids.

For me, personally, I don't get how you, whom I presume to be vegan yourself, can stand to kill any animal for your curiosity when you don't agree with killing a cow to feed a village. And if you're not, why do you want/need to make a vegan anything?

 

[happy1892]

First post here!

I do not understand?

Kayimba (sp?),

What does that mean? Is it a joke? The person's ID who started this topic is Kayimbo. I thought it was a species of mantis. Then other kind of animal LOL!

First post here!

Kayimba (sp?), if you really wanted to do this, going to a mantid enthusiast forum was the completely wrong way to go. Your experiment operates on the acceptance of inevitable loss of life, and that will always be a problem to a mantid enthusiast.

Ummm.....I do not see a reason they need to die. Why do they?

First post here!

Another flaw (no offense intended) with your approach is that part of the passion and respect for mantids come from their feeding behavior and predatory instincts. A truly vegan mantid (independent of predatory instincts) won't move the way mantids do, won't turn and tilt its head the way mantids do, and won't even physically resemble a mantid. You'll probably get a stick insect..

He is going to feed them what they need which is a meat like thing, right? And what he is talking about is vegan right? Anyway that is not a mantis (that is what you are saying?) and maybe that is one thing that could happen.

For me, personally, I don't get how you, whom I presume to be vegan yourself, can stand to kill any animal for your curiosity when you don't agree with killing a cow to feed a village. And if you're not, why do you want/need to make a vegan anything?

I do not think he said he was vegan. You seem to be pretty certain about these things. Are you not that certain?

 

[justrokkit]

Happy1892, I don't want to get into a personal tête-à-tête with you on a thread about some scientific. I will provide clarification if that's what you want. My understanding was that Kayimbo (I was more interested in the subject matter, so I could not remember his/her handle) wanted to take soy to make a vegan alternative, using a mechanized analog to trigger the hunting reflex. I don't know all that is in an insect, nor do I know what a mantid absorbs from its food and what goes in the fecal matter, and s/he did not take steps to address such questions, either. And without specialized knowledge and tools, it's all trial and error, no?

Do some mantids discard wings because there's no tissue in it? Do some/more mantids strongly prefer crickets over silkworms because they need the crunch of chitin? When there are so many questions to answer and so many things to conclude and/or rule out, the experimenter has a lot of work cut out for him/her. And scientific progress, without exception, requires preemptive acceptance of loss in any experiment (if you can prove this wrong, I will only benefit from factual rebuttal); any voluntary loss of life and/or voluntary removal of standard food to a mantid in a mantid enthusiast community will invariably be ill-received.

Let me address Karimbo's post as an explanation for my previous post:

1. Karimbo posted that s/he intends to create a jelly without exhibit intent to test or address any significance of the texture of sub-skeletal tissue (meat in invertebrates that we humans regularly eat have fibrous structure).

2. S/he wants to use soy protein and only soy protein. A cursory search reveals that soy is steeped in controversy: heavy consumption can alter human physiology, and isolated consumption in livestock has shown poor health because they are not biologically equipped to digest soy alone.

3. S/he intends to coat the analog in the said jelly. I believe mantids are programmed (for lack of a better word) to consume the contents of their forelimbs, so I'm led to believe one would try and break down the robot analog.

If I've falsely concluded that you are vegan, then Karimbo, I am sorry. I made the conclusion based on stereotype that vegans outwardly aim to make the world vegan.

Happy1892, I regret that we interacted under these pretenses. If you have anything to discuss/debate exterior to this sole topic, please PM me and I will happily engage you. But I have no intent to simply come out on top. I may not yet have a mantid to call my own, but I respect them greatly, and would certainly respect them all the more if I were the size of a BB fly! It's why I responded the way I did.

 

[jrh3]

You are entitled to an opinion, but that is YOUR opinion, not fact.

I agree, but obviously the OP has a different opinion, which is not right or wrong either.

Democrats.....Geesshh!!!!!!!! :gunsmilie: . Never wanting to take sides. Yes the OP is wrong. Mantids are not vegetarians. They were not made that way.

 

[Extrememantid]

Happy1892, I don't want to get into a personal tête-à-tête with you on a thread about some scientific. I will provide clarification if that's what you want. My understanding was that Kayimbo (I was more interested in the subject matter, so I could not remember his/her handle) wanted to take soy to make a vegan alternative, using a mechanized analog to trigger the hunting reflex. I don't know all that is in an insect, nor do I know what a mantid absorbs from its food and what goes in the fecal matter, and s/he did not take steps to address such questions, either. And without specialized knowledge and tools, it's all trial and error, no?

Do some mantids discard wings because there's no tissue in it? Do some/more mantids strongly prefer crickets over silkworms because they need the crunch of chitin? When there are so many questions to answer and so many things to conclude and/or rule out, the experimenter has a lot of work cut out for him/her. And scientific progress, without exception, requires preemptive acceptance of loss in any experiment (if you can prove this wrong, I will only benefit from factual rebuttal); any voluntary loss of life and/or voluntary removal of standard food to a mantid in a mantid enthusiast community will invariably be ill-received.

Let me address Karimbo's post as an explanation for my previous post:

1. Karimbo posted that s/he intends to create a jelly without exhibit intent to test or address any significance of the texture of sub-skeletal tissue (meat in invertebrates that we humans regularly eat have fibrous structure).

2. S/he wants to use soy protein and only soy protein. A cursory search reveals that soy is steeped in controversy: heavy

consumption can alter human physiology, and isolated consumption in livestock has shown poor health because they are not biologically equipped to digest soy alone.

3. S/he intends to coat the analog in the said jelly. I believe mantids are programmed (for lack of a better word) to consume the contents of their forelimbs, so I'm led to believe one would try and break down the robot analog

If I've falsely concluded that you are vegan, then Karimbo, I am sorry. I made the conclusion based on stereotype that vegans outwardly aim to make the world vegan.

Happy1892, I regret that we interacted under these pretenses. If you have anything to discuss/debate exterior to this sole topic, please PM me and I will happily engage you. But I have no intent to simply come out on top. I may not yet have a mantid to call my

own, but I respect them greatly, and would certainly respect them all the more if I were the size of a BB fly! It's why I responded the way I did.

I have a feeling you and me will get along

 

[brancsikia339]

I have not read through all of this because it's entirely ridiculous.

And Kayimbo is about to make me lose my religion and cuss, thereby breaking my promise to Hibiscus.

I think this person is just trolling!

+1

Yes, but you said you hadn't read the thread, I admit it's not peculiar to draw conclusions on something you haven't read, people do it all the time. The peculiar reference was to a synthetic diet since that's what nearly all our pets subsist on.

Yes we do feed some of our pets different food than they do in the wild, but that isn't changing their lifestyle which took millions of years to evolve. It's like asking an elephant to eat a hamburger.

 

[angelofdeathzz]

The answer is simple, just feed them vegan flies, vegan crickets, and maybe some non meat eating butterflies for desert! This has got to make the top 10 for one of the most silly topics ever started! WOW... Obviously a troll, do you see any other posts from this person?