Wing buds

[Katnapper]

I'm trying to make sure I'm identifying the wing buds in nymphs correctly. And more importantly, how do you tell if they are swollen (signifying impending molt) or not? I've had kind of a hard time distinguishing the wing buds. Is this because they don't really become readily apparent to the naked eye until they get bigger... about L4 or L5? I know the specific area I'm supposed to be looking at... the bottom of the thorax, just above the abdomen on either side... right? But I'm unsure exactly what I'm supposed to be looking for.

I took a pic of my (male, I think) L5 H. membranacea the other day, and for the first time saw what I think are the wing buds (below). Are they the darker green oval things at the top, with the brown trim? And if so, how do I tell if and when they are swollen or not? Thank you.

 

[Headspace]

Those are wing buds, for sure.

Ao to telling if they're swollen, I don't really know--my Chinese are always visibly bigger than they were before they molt, but they always get progressively thicker. There will be a couple of molts with wing buds before the wings actually come out and pump up.

 

[Katnapper]

Those are wing buds, for sure.Ao to telling if they're swollen, I don't really know--my Chinese are always visibly bigger than they were before they molt, but they always get progressively thicker. There will be a couple of molts with wing buds before the wings actually come out and pump up.

Thank you, Headspace! Now at least I know that is them, and the general look of what to search for. So they don't really appear until a couple of molts before becoming adult? Is that correct? And I didn't really notice them until I looked at the macro pic I took. Am I going to have to take pics of them all and look at those just to examine the wing buds? What about a magnifying glass... maybe that would be a help? Still unsure how to tell swollen from non-swollen.

 

[kamakiri]

Normally, they appear flat and have a 'knife-edge' look to them. When they are swollen, they look more like a flattened grain of rice and the edges no longer look sharp-edged. Then there is also the patterned lines of the wing that look 'squiggley' (for lack of a better term) instead of the normal straight pattern - depending on species.

Hope that helps! I'll certainly try to document more next time I have sub-adults.

 

[The_Asa]

They get puffier, kind looking like a wing is ready to "pop" out. I've noticed that some mantids just don't swell as much as others for some reason :huh:

 

[hibiscusmile]

You won't need a magnifying glass when they are ready!

 

[Rick]

You will know. They get very fat and it will be obvious.

 

[Katnapper]

Thank you everyone! Kamakiri, your tips seem especially helpful. I've got a much better idea now what to look for.

Can you tell me about how many molts before adult they start appearing? Do they appear and stay during several molts before adult (getting progressively bigger each time), or only the one right before adult?

From what I gather (looking at the male in my pic above), his wing buds aren't really swollen right now, right? And he has a couple of molts still to go before adulthood? (I figure he's at L5 now, unless I miscounted). Can anyone tell me?

Thanks again... and sorry for all the wing bud questions. I've searched through the forums and just couldn't find any specific information like this on them.

 

[Rick]

Thank you everyone! Kamakiri, your tips seem especially helpful. I've got a much better idea now what to look for.Can you tell me about how many molts before adult they start appearing? Do they appear and stay during several molts before adult (getting progressively bigger each time), or only the one right before adult?

From what I gather (looking at the male in my pic above), his wing buds aren't really swollen right now, right? And he has a couple of molts still to go before adulthood? (I figure he's at L5 now, unless I miscounted). Can anyone tell me?

Thanks again... and sorry for all the wing bud questions. I've searched through the forums and just couldn't find any specific information like this on them.

They pretty much always have them. They get larger as they grow. Those in the pic are not swollen at all. See how they lay flat? When they swell up right before the last molt they will stick out a bit and be very thick.

 

[Katnapper]

They pretty much always have them. They get larger as they grow. Those in the pic are not swollen at all. See how they lay flat? When they swell up right before the last molt they will stick out a bit and be very thick.

Thank you, Rick!

 

[kamakiri]

Thank you everyone! Kamakiri, your tips seem especially helpful. I've got a much better idea now what to look for.Can you tell me about how many molts before adult they start appearing? Do they appear and stay during several molts before adult (getting progressively bigger each time), or only the one right before adult?

From what I gather (looking at the male in my pic above), his wing buds aren't really swollen right now, right? And he has a couple of molts still to go before adulthood? (I figure he's at L5 now, unless I miscounted). Can anyone tell me?

Thanks again... and sorry for all the wing bud questions. I've searched through the forums and just couldn't find any specific information like this on them.

Always glad when I can help

I think he might already be sub-adult looking at your picture. I think L5 is sub-adult for T. sinensis...so I believe you only have one more molt to go...so make sure he has headroom for molting!

 

[Katnapper]

Always glad when I can help I think he might already be sub-adult looking at your picture. I think L5 is sub-adult for T. sinensis...so I believe you only have one more molt to go...so make sure he has headroom for molting!

Thank you, that's good to know. He isn't T. sinensis though... he's H. membranacea. But they're pretty similar in terms of molts probably?

 

[The_Asa]

looks more like presub to me