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I'm a little dissapointed in the heat rocks (needs more testing), but for keeping the minimum temps up, I'm getting really good results from my new Hydrafarm Heat Mats. Pretty cheap as heat sources go.

http://www.hydrofarm.com/pb_detail.php?itemid=3347

It says (and seems to) keep temps about 10-20 degrees above ambient temp.

I'm also enjoying a new thermometer - a Taylor Indoor/Outdoor Thermometer & Hygrometer. Reltively cheap, and my favorite part is the probe that I can raise and lower to find out what's REALLY going on in there!

http://www.taylorusa.com/environment/hygrometers/digital-indoor-outdoor-thermometer-hygrometer.html

I'll keep y'all posted...

 
Here's the setup I'm currently considering for my L4-L6 Idolos. I'm trying to create an alternative to thin branches randomly spread around. I think that a curved continuous weave of this sort of vine might function as molting place AND safety net (once I figure out the right shape). Thoughts...?

This has all my usual bells: Feeding port on top, track lighting above, and thick-grip shelf lining in the back. Even put a bit of bamboo in the corners (to be replaced with something with more texture later.

IMG_9625.jpg


 
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Sporeworld said:
Here's the setup I'm currently considering for my L4-L6 Idolos.
Click to expand...
Looks really nice! I think the leafy vine is a great idea. What kind of screen is that up top? You may want to cover that with mesh because you know they will find the worst possible place they can. I get mesh laundry bags at the dollar store that are perfect to cut up.

What brand tank is that? I'm about to buy another so I'm weighing all options.

 
i think you can do better - i don't mean that rudely - but being on here for two weeks...i already know that. Heat rocks - don't even bother - they are so unpredictable - in the most drastic ways - both ends of the spectrum. It will feel, "sorta hot," not sure, doubt yourself, and then can go mega hot - and has been known to burn reptiles in the past - I've used one. This was for a 4ft. long nile monitor though. They say don't even try snakes - yup, all and any snake should not be enclosed/caged with a heated rock - too dangerous. Heat matss are where it's at. If I had more use - I'd break out my huge kane heatmat made for mother pigs and used for big constrictors - has the temp gauge and all but this was and still is well worth the money. Screwed it on top of a hiding spot/cave so the heat came down on him in a borough. And you are dealing with really low wattage compared - but they have been so much more efficient and really good for any living animal I've owned.

I'm using Nick's style - L2s - they are in a ten gallon right now - took dead branches and material from climbing hydrangeas and honeysuckles - one is the strongest climber - has awesome grip itself, the other just twirls and climbs - so the pieces are pliable and decent length - durable and instantly made a canopy that was originally an issue I wasn't looking forward to dealing with. Next cage - gotta see what i have - maybe only a 40 gallon tall and 40 gallon breeder. i'm into the aesthetics as much as you have shown by way of effort and nice display, portrayals - so no matter what don't lose that. I'm going to concentrate on a pretty intense and serious canopy/top screen, but just molted so I have some time.

How big is that tank by the way. My depth must be off.

Michael

 
Yeah, certinaly needs more work. Really just concentrating on the looping vine right now. Essentially I'm trying to make king-sized excellsior.

I don't beleive, at this point, that they sink their feet in when molting, so much as use their legs to form a big "C-Clamp". So I'm experimenting with materials more complex - so slipping their grip will just ratchet down to the next grip.

The cage is 30" wide. The top is nylon screen, but for L6 and up, I'll put in some version of the twig ceiling. I got a rope net to experiment with on at least one of the cages. What I DON'T like about the "Twig Tops" (we should patent that), is how much it cuts down on the light.

Speaking of the light, the track lights (you can't see them in this pic) are by far the most consistent source of heat I've found (105f just under them, 75-85 at the bottom parts). If I put heat mats on these at all, it'll be to control night temps, but living in SoCal in the (near) summer, I don't think that will be an issue.

It's hard to resist spraying them (habit) but I've yet to see them drink. I'm routinely soaking the substrate to keep up humidity.

 
Sporeworld said:
What I DON'T like about the "Twig Tops" (we should patent that), is how much it cuts down on the light.

It's hard to resist spraying them (habit) but I've yet to see them drink. I'm routinely soaking the substrate to keep up humidity.
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I don't notice much drop in light through my twigs, but that would depend, of course, on how thin they are and tightly you pack them. Was definitely a concern of mine since I shoot video in the tanks.

We'll do a limited experiment on misting. I'll be misting mine daily. We'll see if that makes any difference.

 
All of sporeworlds stuff so far is great (amazing really :) ) for L4 and under but you may need more for the upper part of the spectrum. Like uppper things to molt from(not screen) and things(sticks) to climb from after the molt when there bigger. OR do as you want, this is just how it work's well for me???

 
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Yeah, I think I struggle (emotionally) with accepting that they MUST be separated at subadult to avoid molting problems. In large numbers that just becomes impractical. I'm hoping to develop something more efficient. I'd like us to leave a kind of legacy behind of how we did it, and how it can be done again (reliably).

I'm convinced that anyone can raise a small number with the info we have now. But an epic, eye-pleasing communal setup still seems just out of reach.

I've seen some massive branch-filled enclosures ("Gurder's" comes to mind) with 10 or 20 in each, which has a history of success. I think, if I had to house 20 subadults tomorrow, I'd just buy a giant screen tent, fill it with branches, throw some heat lamps on it, and take a nap. :)

 
Sporeworld said:
Yeah, I think I struggle (emotionally) with accepting that they MUST be separated at subadult to avoid molting problems. In large numbers that just becomes impractical.
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You can put in all the branches you want but they will always climb to the highest point. I've found that a 12"x12" area is only sufficient for 2 adults. Any more and they are overcrowded. You can fit 3 subs in that space but you'd have to separate those nearing molt. By my estimation you'd need 10 square feet of roof to keep 20 adults. You may want to try tall net cages laying down.

 
Possible Idolo cage

(courtesy of Bioquip)

I'm waiting for someone to get one of these bad boys. I'd give it a go if I had more time on my hands!

Didn't someone put their Idolos in a greenhouse on the European forum and have lots of success?

 
Hahahah! Yeah - that is EXACTLY what I'm talking about! Well, threatening...

A big factor (for me) is VIEWABILITY. With a tent, I'd need to put glass on at least one side.

I'm also beginning to think WIDE is great , but HIGH is bad. Just more distance to fall, more area to climatize and more food to be stocked.

Someone (Precarius?) had their Idolo on Ficus. How did they do on that?

 
Sporeworld said:
I'm also beginning to think WIDE is great , but HIGH is bad. Just more distance to fall, more area to climatize and more food to be stocked.

Someone (Precarius?) had their Idolo on Ficus. How did they do on that?
Click to expand...
Absolutely! That's the first thing I thought when I looked at that giant net cage. It should only be 1/3rd that height.

My girls love hanging on the Ficus. I'll bet you could raise them on a freestanding plant if it was out of reach of any walls and if you could figure out how to feed them. I let them on the ficus for a day or two at a time since they need to be in a cage to feed on flies, but in that time they only leave the ficus to climb directly on the window screen if the window is open.

Maybe a Ficus or other small tree-like plant inside a tall net cage with something around the base to break a fall? Mesh stretched over a simple frame would do the trick and you'd be able to water the plant through it. I may have to try that. Then even if they molt from the top they could reach down to the Ficus. The only concern would be humidity so placement and time of year would be an important factor. I have a window in one of my non-air conditioned rooms that may be perfect for this.

Another option would be a net cage placed over just to top half of the ficus by cutting out the bottom of the cage, then tying it tight around the trunk. That way you'd have a zipper door and a viewing side. Personally I prefer viewing through glass. Always will.

Of course, net cages are not the ideal material for later instars so maybe one of those vinyl screen Reptarium enclosures would be better. Again, viewing becomes an issue.

 
Yeah, I have about 6 of those - one really huge one (6'x4', i think). They were recomended by someone in the UK, and I already had them for my silkmoths. (Ah, the olden days. No tracklights yet, and my file cabinets were so new, I still had the keys attached to them...)

LunaMoths4-12-2006003.jpg


I've got dozens of very large ficus, and tossing one or two in a tent would work. I'm still hoping to come up with a landscape (horizontal) version instead. Otherwise, rows of Exoterras might be the solution.

 
I could probably just modify my screen cages the way you did with the glass ones (twigs on the top and sides) for the same effect. This would probably house 12-18 sub adults.

Iphone2-2010044.jpg


 
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Very nice, are those all real plants in there? They would be a great way to display adults, I'll need to do something like this for another species I have on the back burner :alien: (phone home)

I did pick up a 65 gallon Reptarium enclosure some time ago, but I must say I was disappointed on the viewing as the black mesh was darker than I thought when I ordered it, maybe a clear plastic panel would brighten it up so I can at least see in there from 5-6 ft away.

 
I've been reading all of your guys post and doing my own setup. Right now my idolos are in a net cage with thin branches everywhere plus a ceramic heater on top so I can sleep at night. When they larger will switch net cages for them, but now they are still at L3s.

 

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