Great basic fruit fly culture guide. Very similar to how I do ff cultures also. 
A guide to making FF (Fruit Fly) cultures
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packer43064
Well-known member
Pictures explain alot.
Great basic fruit fly culture guide. Very similar to how I do ff cultures also.
Awesome.PhilinYuma
Well-known member
As Becky (Katnapper) says, this is a great basic fruit fly guide, and the pix are always a plus.
You have proven that his mix is adequate for raising fruit flies.
I wonder, though, if you aren't using too much vinegar. I tried proofing active yeast -- a pinch plus a pinch of sugar in a warm solution -- in plain warm water and with a mixture of 1/3 white vinegar and 2/3 warm water which you recommend. As I write this, the suspension in plain water has proofed and that in vinegar and water has only produced two bubbles of CO2. Of course, I did not try it in your mixture, but I wonder if so much vinegar does not lower the pH to a point that the yeast eiither does not ferment or does so only slowly/partially. Also, while, as you say, the yeast is eaten by the flies, it is an essential food for the larvae, so I wonder if the combination of low pH and tiny amount of yeast do not limit the total hatch. I should add that I successfully raised FFs using the same amount of yeast that you recommend (though not nearly as much vinegar), but raising ithe amount to between 12.5% and 20% of the dry weight greatly increases the hatch.
This is your thread, of course, but I wonder if we couldn't have a number of members' favorite formulae submitted to an arbitrator, say Peter J.F. (ha! gotcha mate!), to compare the hatches yielded by the different mixes. I would expect that mine would yield the most, but it is also the most expensive per cup, and might not prove cost effective. What do you think?
You have proven that his mix is adequate for raising fruit flies.
I wonder, though, if you aren't using too much vinegar. I tried proofing active yeast -- a pinch plus a pinch of sugar in a warm solution -- in plain warm water and with a mixture of 1/3 white vinegar and 2/3 warm water which you recommend. As I write this, the suspension in plain water has proofed and that in vinegar and water has only produced two bubbles of CO2. Of course, I did not try it in your mixture, but I wonder if so much vinegar does not lower the pH to a point that the yeast eiither does not ferment or does so only slowly/partially. Also, while, as you say, the yeast is eaten by the flies, it is an essential food for the larvae, so I wonder if the combination of low pH and tiny amount of yeast do not limit the total hatch. I should add that I successfully raised FFs using the same amount of yeast that you recommend (though not nearly as much vinegar), but raising ithe amount to between 12.5% and 20% of the dry weight greatly increases the hatch.
This is your thread, of course, but I wonder if we couldn't have a number of members' favorite formulae submitted to an arbitrator, say Peter J.F. (ha! gotcha mate!), to compare the hatches yielded by the different mixes. I would expect that mine would yield the most, but it is also the most expensive per cup, and might not prove cost effective. What do you think?
packer43064
Well-known member
Honestly I looked for a recipe that was simple yet effective. I'm a member on a dart frog forum and the recipe in the guide (from dart site) seemed the easiest. There were loads of different recipes which involved juice and boiling ingredients and all kinds of extras. There's a point where spending a dollar per culture and doing all these special ways of making the media which takes even longer per culture to make when I can make my simple recipe in minutes per culture and if my production is low I can easily make two if I had to. With that being said, I do think I am using too much vinegar. I know because when I walk in the bug room there are 24 cultures going. That is 6 cups of vinegar total. I like the vinegar smell actually, but it is pretty strong. How much do you use? I'm thinking about just getting some Methyl Paraben and just do away with the vinegar. Alot of sponsors on the dart site uses it. Isn't that expensive either.
Another thing is I have no clue if my cultures produce well or not compared to other recipes. There seems to be a ton of them when they hatch and so on until about the 5th week then I trash them, but there's nothing to compare it to. I think I need to do some experiments with "better" recipes and see if there is a difference. Also you said you add more yeast, the active right? How much or do you mean the brewers yeast.
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I make so many cultures a week, I should be good at it, I continually have to fix it. I say go with what u know. I bad! :blink: After reading this I decided to try vinegar again, I don't know why, just did, made some last night, whining the whole time, It does not take forever, but I felt like complaining. I made 15 I think. I don't measure anymore, after all these years, it is not that I can't measure, I just never do. I use brewers yeast, and also sell it for 2.50 a lb. and calcium propionate which I also sell, but I digress.... sometimes I also forget to put something in if I am tired or the hubby is yacking at me.... I not perfect, even though you guys think I am.... :lol: . What I am trying to say, (but I don't wanna get up and go to work, so am wasting time typing) is if what you are doing works, continue on!
packer43064
Well-known member
It does work, so I'll stick with it. You think calcium propionate is better than Methyl Paraben? I've looked online for the calcium propionate and couldn't find it for cheap.
PhilinYuma
Well-known member
I use only methyl paraben -1TBS for 71/2 cups of food, but when I worked in a university fly lab, many years ago, we used both together (actually, propionic acid). If you get no mold with one, why add a second? Labs never use vinegar to my knowledge, either as an egg laying stimulus or mould retarder. As I think Rebecca might have been saying, :lol: if you come up with a formula that works to your satisfaction, stick with it, but it is not a bad idea to try several formulae before settling on the one you like.
I have never seen a lab formula with active yeast that uses less than 12.5% (1/8) and it iwill give the most dramatic increase in fly yield. It's a bit expensive, though, and I use 1 cup to 51/2 cups of other ingredients (4 cups potato flakes, 1/2 cup casein [animal protein] 1/2 cup sugar [to feed the growing yeast] and 1/2 cup brewer's yeast [essential amino acids]) This gives me a 15% yeast by volume mix, and I add a "scant" TBS of paraben.
A lot of folks, including Orin in his sticky, recommend starting the yeast culture on an apple slice, some "swear" by massa flour, but if you ever follow an academioc protocol you learn to be able to justify everything you use. I never designed formulae, of course, and some were depletion diets in which an element deemed vital was deliberately omitted (now you can by them from a supplier) but I learned a lot about both technique and protocols from my drudgery! Oh, BTW, a lot of folks have the mistaken idea that yeast fermentatiion takes a while to get started. It starts as soon as the yeast finds food (sugar, usually( and moisture, but if you are only adding a few grains, it will take a while before the ffs notice. The reason for using too little yeast may be that if you use a lot and mix it well into the formula, it will cause large ammounts of CO2 to be formed quite quickly, and if not allowed to vent, can stun and then kill the ffs as a member found out a while back. Using cotton wool bungs instead of foam ones helps. I personall let it sit over night befor introducing the flies.
I would add that while the emphasis in formulating FF food has been on the number and vigor of the flies produced, some Scandivian researchers have found that animal protein used in the food, in their case, ground dog food (25% protein) and in my feed, casein, has a measurable tritrophic effect. ie, it benefits the predators that eat the fliesthat ate the protein as larvae. They used slowly developing wolf spiders which suggests that the same benefits may obtain with mantids.
packer43064
Well-known member
Great basic fruit fly culture guide. Very similar to how I do ff cultures also.
I think I used a similar formula a year ago. I used oatmeal, vinegar, motts applesauce and a pinch of brewers yeast. I might have added sugar but I can not say for sure. I did not use any specific ratio.I used a flask for the container and to my suprise the drosophila melanogaster culture lasted for 4-5 mos. ( I have heard that flask containers normally do not do well for culturing fruit flys.)I had created two drosophila hydei cultures but they did not grow at all, although I only used a few hydei flys so it may not be the culture to blame, rather the lack of flys or perhaps an unknown variable.
Ricardo
Well-known member
How do you extract them without them flying everywhere?
Also how long will it take for the fruit flies to form?
Also how long will it take for the fruit flies to form?
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Most people culture flightless fruit fly cultures which can be purchased practically anywhere online.
PhilinYuma
Well-known member
Yeah, I have some on order now, but I rather like to use "wild" mels in 12"cubes, because they distribute better and are more fecund. You can calm them down by putting their deli cup in the fridge for a few minutes (check, first time, to see how many minutes it takes to immobilize 'em). I pour mine in through a funnel, but some folks prefer to just open the lid of the nymphs' pot.
If you want to buy the wild type, you can get pupae very reasonably from Chuck at SpiderPharm.
I've been trying to culture mels, and hydeis for the past two weeks. So far I have noticed mel. larvae but no hydei yet. The late winter we have had is not helping with ideal breeding temps :angry: I've been buying cultures like crazy too but they don't seem to last long. I have flat stomached mantids; I should have waited til at least mid-april before I got back in the mantis hobby.
