Anyone hatched a recently laid S. Limbata Ooth yet?

[Katnapper]

Not very pink, but the pinkest one I have since the other one turned camo brown-black:

Interesting coloration... I like it! Hmmm.... is that how you tell the boys from the girls in this species (pink)? :lol: Lol.... j/k of course. Thanks for sharing the pic... I really couldn't imagine the coloration you guys were talking about before seeing the pic.

 

[PhilinYuma]

My problem is....why buy Hydei FF's if they are only good to L4 and than they neeed bigger, when I have L3's doing great on melanogasters...Do you guys breed the houseflies?

Two answers for the price of one!

Although there are limiting factors (e.g. if a mantis is about to molt, and not eating, or if it has just eaten a meal many times its size) a mantis will catch as much food as stimulates its striking reflex. In captivity, how often this happens will depend on the size of the enclosure, the number of food items offered, and their accessibility to the mantis. (This is one reason why it is better to feed 1n fruit flies to a mantis per day rather than 3n every three days). If you feed the same number of hydei per day as mels, the mantis will likely eat the same number of flies but receive a greater amount of food, grow faster and die younger.

Raising house flies makes raising fruit flies seem like a kindergarten exercise, which is why so many people simply buy the pupae and have them eclose (emerge as adults) on an "as needed" basis. It's worth bearing in mind, though, that, depending on the ambient temperature and humidity in your fridge, they will only be viable for about two weeks or so. I gram of house fly pupae yields about 50 flies, so if you buy 100 grams you will have enough to feed about 120 mantises three flies a day for two weeks in order to use them all up! If you have fewer mantises than that, you may want to try Mantis Place which is the only p[lace I know that sells them by the hundred instead of by weight.

There is a hard-to find URL on the net (if you Google <raising house flies> you'll get hundreds of entries on how to kill them!), which gives a method for mass production. I built the enclosure, got a great number of flies and then killed them by leaving the container in the sun where they died, en masse, from heat and dehydration. I'm going to try again, and if the system works all the way through, (there are some minor omissions in the first part) I'll share the method. It's worth remembering, though, that raising flies can be a bit stinky, and mothers tend not to like that.

 

[kamakiri]

Interesting coloration... I like it! Hmmm.... is that how you tell the boys from the girls in this species (pink)? :lol: Lol.... j/k of course. Thanks for sharing the pic... I really couldn't imagine the coloration you guys were talking about before seeing the pic.

Hrm...might not be a coincidence that it's the girls which have pink! (j/k for all the serious people)

The color was a little less subtle on the other green morph with pink/red on the legs too.

 

[yeatzee]

I took a couple of pictures of my nymphs ranging from L1 - L4 which I will post when my computer will allow me to.

Just thought I'd let you guys know I currently have another ooth starting to hatch, but this time I'm fully prepared

Also my second FF culture I set up is starting to explode meaning my what seems to be dying culture will have a backup just in case.

 

[yeatzee]

excuse the quality..... because I dont have a macro lens I had to resort to ultra cropping.

 

[kamakiri]

excuse the quality..... because I dont have a macro lens I had to resort to ultra cropping.

Thanks for sharing your limbatas.

You know, you don't need a macro lens to to macro...there's lots of other methods that will get you higher magnification:

Extension tubes

Diopters (front mounted filter thread)

Reversing ring (needs two lenses, one is mounted backwards in front of the one normally mounted to the camera)

I've even done cell phone macro with a 10x loupe.

What brand of SLR are you using?

 

[yeatzee]

Im Fairly familiar with all those methods but the quality just isnt on par with an actual macro lens by anymeans.

Im using a Pentax K200d btw.

On another note, one of my ooths that I thought was forsure not fertile, just started hatching today. Im beggining to get over ran again

Also I purchased a D. Hydei culture today.

 

[PhilinYuma]

Good idea...I bet that one hatches in the spring or late winter.

Well, this is an old thread, and I imagine that the first of everyone's fertile ooths have started hatching by now. My sole wild caught female, still alive, still pouncing in crickets, was the exception that proves the rule about wild-caught females being fertile, I realized. How can you tell that an ooth is infertile? It's not easy, but for someone of my experience it is possible. Also of course, it never hatches. I had left the two "experimental" ooths outside (remember the "photoperiod" silliness?) and when I cleaned my patio off last week, I sadly brought them in,. I didn't even bother putting the poor things in a pot. This turned out to be a mistake, because today, the "normal photoperiod" ooth HATCHED! Tiny little babies scampering around and hopping about 100 feet every time I tried to catch one. Did you better-organized guys start them off on mels? They seem so tiny compared with some of my other F1s .

AND THAT ISN'T ALL!

I envy Rick his eagle eyed ability to spot ooths. I have presbyopia, astigmatism and a retinal hole in my left eye, so I'm happy if I can spot small dogs before I step on them. To my amazement, I found a well weathered S.limbata ooth on an adobe covered wall yesterday, and since I had no intention of ruining the point of my knife, came back with something more appropriate today and dug it off. Five feet away was an uprooted bush, long dead, that had been slowly moving along the alley with every wind. I went to move one of the branches out of the way, and, you've guessed it, found another ooth on a twig. This alley is only about 100 yards from where I caught momma, and it is heavily infested with crix, so it looks as though I have found an S. limbata breeding ground.

All thanks to the Mantis Goddess, Blessed be Her Name.

 

[yeatzee]

Ha, sweet man!

After I got my fruit flies I've been feeding them melanogasters from L1-L4 so farr. Seems to work pretty good, but I'll have a Hydei culture tommorow so I'll tell you if my L1's can handle em.

I also had another unexpected ooth hatch two days ago folowed with another early yesterday. I've currently got three ooths hatching at the same time

I just hope I dont exhaust my melanogasters. I've got 1 old culture, 1 new, and one extremely new..... *sigh*

As for the Hydei should I start a new culture as soon as I get the culture?

 

[Katnapper]

Ha, sweet man!After I got my fruit flies I've been feeding them melanogasters from L1-L4 so farr. Seems to work pretty good, but I'll have a Hydei culture tommorow so I'll tell you if my L1's can handle em.

I also had another unexpected ooth hatch two days ago folowed with another early yesterday. I've currently got three ooths hatching at the same time

I just hope I dont exhaust my melanogasters. I've got 1 old culture, 1 new, and one extremely new..... *sigh*

As for the Hydei should I start a new culture as soon as I get the culture?

With all those nymphs, I'd start 2.

 

[yeatzee]

two new Hydei cultures + the one I've got comming in? Anyone know where i can source some of those 32 oz. containers like the ones on mantis place with the cloth top for cheap? I bought a pack of twelve with my melanogaster culture (it was a kit), and Im using them all currently.

 

[kamakiri]

Unless yours are hatching really small, I'm certain that L1s will take hydei flies and eat them without waste. Since my small cricket supply has been reduced, i've started using the hydei for some of my L4s as supplemental food. I thought they would be too small, but some of the mantises have been eating them double-fisted or even one in each claw with one handled just by the mouth parts. But I really feel that these are just snack-size bites and the mantises seem to be really working to fill their guts.

I'd suggest mainly switching to hydei anyway. Starting at least two would be a good idea if you still have more ooths to hatch. Unless you are keeping smaller varieties, I wouldn't even bother with melanos. I only have them for my Gambian SE Flower and Ant mantises which are way too small to take hydei at first feeding, and only start by eating partial melanos.

I hear you about the reduced quality with other options, but there are lenses (typically primes) that come close. Not really worth it if using a kit-type lens. I shoot Canon and Sigma mounts...so I wouldn't know what the equivalents would be for you.

My update>

Have a few L5s now...two females just molted yesterday, and some of the males molted in the past few days. Lost one of the pink/tan females to a mis-molt or possibly also a cricket bite (not the one that was temporarily white). There was a wound near the last segments.

 

[MantidLord]

Hey guys. I skimmed through the thread (really long), and I'm just wondering: did your ooths hatch in the wild or were they hatched inside? Also, were the ooths layed earlier than wild ooths or at the same time? I ask this because (old topic) my I. oratorias layed eggcases early in the year and despite being in room temp (which they usually require about 90 degrees fahrenheit), they hatched before the new year (around September). I just caught an adult I. oratoria a few weeks ago, but she died (old age). So my main question is this: If the nymphs hatched at an "unnatural" time like mine, do you plan on keeping them all, or would letting them go send them to their doom? And please, I've noticed that despite being stuffed with food, and being raised in the same temperature as their parents, this generation is growing really slow compared to last generation. Could this be due to their "early birth"? I've also had a dozen more casualties of nymphs above L2, which I haven't had any last generation unless it was due to cannibalism. Any ways, please let me know if you notice anything different about these nymphs compared to the "others".

P.S. All of this is assuming that Stagmomantis spp. don't have overlapping generations. Like I know I. oratoria doesn't.

 

[kamakiri]

did your ooths hatch in the wild or were they hatched inside? Also, were the ooths layed earlier than wild ooths or at the same time?

The other guys would need to chime in, but I think yeatzee and Arkanis hatched primarily inside in CA and it looks like PhilinYuma's was essentially outside in AZ.

So my main question is this: If the nymphs hatched at an "unnatural" time like mine, do you plan on keeping them all, or would letting them go send them to their doom?

I got mine from Arkanis and I plan on keeping most of this generation for breeding a subsequent generation to release locally in spring. Well, also to try to establish a breeding population of the pink morphs.

And could it be that your oratorias had a problem with inbreeding? Also suggest to PM joossa...very knowledgable about oratorias.

Also reminds me...yeatzee> Do you think we could trade some males from your first batch? I have about a dozen males still but want some that aren't siblings. Also willing to buy...since you probably have way more than you need.

 

[MantidLord]

Well, as I've learned from the forum, inbreeding shouldn't cause a such a problem. But seeing as the parents were all found around my house (as nymphs) and paired randomly. It's very possible that inbreeding occured. But the extent of the consequence is what I don't know. thanks for the reply.

 

[yeatzee]

Mine were all hatched indoors. I had setup a few outside but I decided to take them in (still not sure why though ). These just hatched.

Kamakiri, i have not attempted to sex most of my nymphs. I sexed the ones that got to L4, but all have died. (one got eaten after it molted to L4, one died for unknown causes, and the other wouldn't eat.) I'd rather not flood this thread so PM me (i doubt giving you a couple would be a problem).

 

[yeatzee]

None have made it to L4 yet sadly......but i have three ooths still hatching

Here are a few pics of my current favorite of the bunch.

Male right?

Once again sorry for the quality, I had to ultra crop. I am getting my 100mm macro lens soon though!

 

[kamakiri]

Male right?

Once again sorry for the quality, I had to ultra crop. I am getting my 100mm macro lens soon though!

I would have guessed female...because the last two segments look like they're getting 'pulled in'. Might be easier to tell from the underside. What instar is that? L3?

Glad to hear you're getting the macro lens! I'm sure you're going to have fun with it!

But your pictures to date are fine considering...viewing/cropping at 100% for the web isn't a problem. And the ones you posted look like what you intended is in focus.

My update>

Four females are L5, one is L4 (the temporarily white one). The camo female has turned more pink/camo. I should take more pics before she molts L6...

The 14 or so males are mostly L4 but there are a couple of L3s and L5s. Also just noticed last night that no males are brown or camo from this group.(Duuuh!) Just varied greens and some red/pink highlights.

I should also note that a couple of males that were L4s housed communally fell victim to their roommates...everyone else was kept individually.

 

[yeatzee]

Yeah it's an L3. Im still not sure why non will molt to L4.

Yeah im siked, and can't wait to post more pictures when i get the lens. Im taking a photography class, so for what I like to do a macro lens is a must to keep the quality at its best.

Oh yeah, before I left to practise today i checked on my mantids and found an ooth that i removed from one of my sticks waiting to be super glued to a container hatching even though it was right side up. I was almost late to practice trying to find all the little buggers

I've got way too many mantids atm, and to think....if I had already purchased fruit flies for my first ooth which ended up hatching almost a 100 nymphs, I would have been able to save em all, meaning I doubt I could handle it once i got to where i am now. I've got 4 ooths hatching right now :lol:

Quick question though...does anybody know where i can get more 32oz containers with the cloth tops for cheap? Im using all twelve and one of my larger containers atm, whose nymphs i would like to transfer to 32 oz ones.

 

[cloud jaguar]

Quick question though...does anybody know where i can get more 32oz containers with the cloth tops for cheap? Im using all twelve and one of my larger containers atm, whose nymphs i would like to transfer to 32 oz ones.

If you want to do it cheap the best way is to go to SMART AND FINAL, buy the lids, make a square hole in them with an x-acto blade, then glue gun a square of fine mesh on there. You can suitable mesh at most fabric stores. I find it works best to squeeze the lid down on top of a piece of marble or glass after gluing to flatten everything out nice and pretty.

Otherwise buy them from mantisplace.com for 30 cents each.