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cool mimicry, not a mantid I would REALLY want to keep but perhaps I need to see more pictures first

has anybody got them in culure or are you trying to find an exporter?

Where are they from?

 
This species of mantis can be found in South East Asia. Very rare mantis and close to extinction perhaps due to deforestation. A friend in Malaysia had a few pics of them in the following link. This wild species get nervious and panic easily and don't do well in captivity. Unless you are lucky enough to get an ooth and breed them from hatchling in a decent cage and setup. They belong to para-toxodera or toxodera spec.

http://www.angelfire.com/yt/kpyehi2/index15.html

 
I think i may have finally found a mantis im not particularly keen on the look of... Looks like it's been stamped on several times, or sat on with force by someone with a heavy rear... :p

 
Hi.

The pics show a Toxodera species, probably from the denticulata/monstrosa-complex. Paratoxodera looks somewhat different (pronotum straight, with lobes on it). Noone has bred them yet, most people do not even manage to keep them alive for a longer period.

The threat by deforestation does not apply to this taxon alone, but to all rainforest taxa in SE Asia. It would be desireable that people keep this in mind and do not think of it just when such a species is involved.

If someone really manages to get some alive please bear in mind that this is no beginner species. I do not think most people here may be succesful in breeding it. Sorry, guys! :?

However, my experience tells me that people would nonetheless try it for themselves rather than giving it away to a more experienced breeder, even if this leads to the death of the specimens. Would you give it away? You see! :!:

Regards,

Christian

 
beginners probably wont be able to get hold of them. i reckon breeders that use a place like this regularly are more likely to succeed than a lone breeder that all he has to go by is his own experience. if something like this seems to die in captivity no matter what, than i reckon it will most probably be because of one factor, just looking at it you can see that moulting will be a big deal for it, that or diet, humidity or temperature would most probably be the cause

 
I think there are more examples of 'expertise' amongst our forum-goers, particularly among the young adults than Christian gives credit for :wink:

I know you wouldnt have meant that as an insult, but absolutely every species of mantis was kept for a 'first time' by someone during their , again, 'first time'. In other words, the 'noobs can often out-do the olds'. I know its a poor example (possibly), but I was told countless times 9 years ago that Hymenopus coronatus was extremely difficult to keep and/or breed. I can happily say that I found it far easier in all aspects than many other species that are more 'common' and that are bred widely by people who have had failed attempts with Hymenopus.

Why? Luck of the draw, without more people getting the particular species and giving it a shot, you'll never know how to do it.

The experts always seem to go to TOO MUCH effort and end up killing them anyway, there is some health in neglect. The point of my rant? Well, I dont often have a point, lol, but this time it's just to say it may not be a beginners best 'first mantis', but the knowledge of some of the users here is certainly plenty enough to raise a mantis regardless of species. If you dont try, you dont know :D If these animals are in such danger from our activities already, then it is down to everyday enthusiasts to ensure that they don't leave us for good.

Think i'm done now :D I still think it's ugly though...In a wonderful, animal kind of way :wink: )

 
lol, agreed on the hymenopus. I find them a doddle compared to raising nymphs of the american sub species of tenodera (seriosuly).

I have heard many people say that partoxodera and toxodera species are hard to keep, but the fact is that people ARE keeping them.

The guy I emailed said he has them at the moment (and he is afraid of spams apparently :? your guess is as good as mine.) He also has some photos of a metalicidae species, I have not quite got down to weather he is keeping them or not, but I am sure I will. (thanks to babelfish.)

If people are keeping them with success, then I am sure it does not take a hobbyist with years of experience who has never kept them, to hold possesion of some, and keep them alive.

I for one, and not at all saying I could keep them alive, would love to give them a go ;)

Cheers,

Ian

 
I had a private breeder who was willing to part with 2 female and a male of this sp back in september. I had another offer a sp similar to those in the pics to however they now appear to be very hesitant to give them up.

heck to be fair i am not keen, however if anyone does get them please do think of breeding them to keep up their numbers rather than the breeding them for a profit :idea: .

Regards Lee

 
that would be nice...but for some reason, maybe as christian suggested, the thought of keeping them is to hard, I cannot see this specie increasing in popularity, in captivity.

However, I think maybe if groups of people on the forum, were to get together and search for species that are dying out in captivity, and helped raise the numbers, that would be great.

With the amount of knowledge and contacts thrown in together from all the users of the forum, I am sure it would work wonders.

Cheers,

Ian

 
it would be a pritty good idea to start some sort of collective conservation, of particular species. However i would think that such program may be difficult :cry: .

BUT i am more than willing to take part. The guys i mentioned in the last post are still not willing to part with their mantids. :?

But let me know if yuo are interested in consorvation of sorts.

Lee

 
what do you mean boy?

na jk. i prefer to culture on my own, however i do buy rom private breeders on occasion as toget a broad range of genetics in this instance it my be best to stick with the breeders i know as they already have contacts.

well we can only see. :roll:

Lee

 
If we are going to do conservation stuff and bring up the numbers of certain species we need to find breeders that live in the same area as some of these mantids. That way, if we are succesful, we can get some rereleased easily so as our breeding program can actually have an effect on the native population. I'm all for this idea though and would be glad to help.

 
Very true, however my only real concern at the moment is how to get holdof some healthy adults/nymphs/ooths etc accordint to those i have spoken to they are very difficult to send via post, they seem to travel poorly. Releasing them would be am aspect which should be considered carefully but we can only wait and see how this pans out.

Lee

 
Very true, however my only real concern at the moment is how to get holdof some healthy adults/nymphs/ooths etc accordint to those i have spoken to they are very difficult to send via post, they seem to travel poorly. Releasing them would be am aspect which should be considered carefully but we can only wait and see how this pans out.Lee
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This could be interesting but I'm not sure how easily they will adapt to being reintroduced, perhaps not too badly as mantids are not in a "higher taxa" eg mammals birds etc and also don't learn anything from parents eg feeding and other behaviour

 
Very true, however my only real concern at the moment is how to get holdof some healthy adults/nymphs/ooths etc accordint to those i have spoken to they are very difficult to send via post, they seem to travel poorly. Releasing them would be am aspect which should be considered carefully but we can only wait and see how this pans out.Lee
Click to expand...
This could be interesting but I'm not sure how easily they will adapt to being reintroduced, perhaps not too badly as mantids are not in a "higher taxa" eg mammals birds etc and also don't learn anything from parents eg feeding and other behaviour
Click to expand...
You would introduce nymphs not adults. The main reason why a species doesn't do well in captivity is because of the conditions.. if someone managed to get the ideal rain forst condion (or where it lives) then it would be successful. If people don't try then no one will know, will be a shame if this species does get extinct.

 
You say that they hve trouble living there due to forestation. I think it would be cool to have these quite rare in captivity if kept by having the breeder maybe keep one ootheca to breed on and then give the rest to a trustworthy person where ever they're from the leave the rest of the ootheca in thewild so they can be less rare. There fore they wouldn't be so rare after years of doing this in captivity maybe and can be sold as much as say, gongylus or phylocrania paradoxa etc in time.

Cheers, Cameron.

 
Well, I'm not sure how to do this but I think we should work this out. I do think we need to do this. These are very beautiful mantids and yes, it would be a real shame for them to go extinct. Now I'm not volunteering for the first round of raising these, I am still relatively a beginer. I am working on my materials and cages. Right now I don't have very good temp control but soon I plan on getting that too. I like the idea of helping out with uncommon species, even if not this one as to the difficult conditions to simulate with what I have.

 
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