Empusa mantis

[Mantida]

Yen, do you find the mantids on top of the light bulbs sometimes? The only downside to that I think would be if one stayed on a bulb too long and got burned or cooked.

I like your net cage and coco-fibre mat idea though... should try it out myself for my gongy.

 

[macro junkie]

i cant see that happening?there not that stupid are they yen where they would sit on a boiling hot surface?

 

[Kruszakus]

Oh! Another method I developed - this is the so called oil flask method. You take a plastic container, and you cut out a small hole in the lid - you put a paper towel through the hole, so a small part it sticking out, and the rest should be long enough to reach the bottom of the container. You fill it with honeyed water, and it should provide your flies with both for some time.

Macro - I heard that someone was using a light bulb on the side of the enclosure (I think it was a glass tank) and the poor mantis had it's legs burned from stepping on the hot surface.

 

[yen_saw]

Yes, Empusa ooths hatch in just 2-4 weeks, as they have their diapause in the larval stage.

So this species has a short incubating period because of the diapause in later stage of their life. Thta's interesting!

Yen, do you find the mantids on top of the light bulbs sometimes? The only downside to that I think would be if one stayed on a bulb too long and got burned or cooked.I like your net cage and coco-fibre mat idea though... should try it out myself for my gongy.

Actually i haven't seen the Empusa fasciata hanging on top of the light bulb since the light bulb is facing upwards. But i have seen idolomantis trying to reach the bottom of light bulb (when it is hang upside down) from another branch but as the light bulb is glass it was difficult for them to get a good grip so they usually give up. very few manage to hang on the light bulb but it is too hot that they eventually move away from the bulb. I wanted to add more fake long grasses on the cage but haven't got a chance to do so. But the female seems to do alright in the cage and has deposited 4 oothecae in 6 days :blink:

i cant see that happening?there not that stupid are they yen where they would sit on a boiling hot surface?

THey will hang as close to the the light source for the heat but never sit on top(or bottom) of light bulb. If that happen i would say it must be very cold or the light bulb is using too low of wattage.

Oh! Another method I developed - this is the so called oil flask method. You take a plastic container, and you cut out a small hole in the lid - you put a paper towel through the hole, so a small part it sticking out, and the rest should be long enough to reach the bottom of the container. You fill it with honeyed water, and it should provide your flies with both for some time.

I need that flask!!

 

[Kruszakus]

It's easy to do - 100 ml cups (the ones you pee in) with 1 cm hole in the lid and a paper towel put through it will hold water for even two weeks. This way you could provide your flys with a supply of water in one cup and with crystalized honey in the other one - you can carve out a nice nieche for them, hehehe.

By the way - I am shocked! My I. lateralis females started depositing ooths after one week! What a shame they haven't had a chance to mate before laying ooths.

 

[yen_saw]

Damn.... now i really hope the first couple of the E. fasciata oothecae are fertile!!

 

[Kruszakus]

I hope so as well - man, we should spread the love for Empusidae and other communal mantids all over the world... plus, after seeing those pictures Empusa has become even more coveted.

Your males are still doing fine? Or are they dropping like flies?

 

[yen_saw]

Yeah it is a cool species, but its requirement on diapause, food preference, and heat may be too much of a challenge for hobbyists, and timing for a mature adult pair wasn't easy in my case. Another species not recommended for beginner in my opinion.

Both adult males are doing alright, although the oldest one is a bit sluggish.

 

[Kruszakus]

I know it's not for beginners, but I will surely try to attempt breeding this species somewhere in the near future - considering the level of difficulty, this would be fun.

The male is a bit sluggish? This does not bode well, he'll probably be dead within a couple of days.

By the way - this is my new little guy, say hi to Rupert...

 

[yen_saw]

Hi Rupert

Yeah no harm trying you have gone too far now to retreat Best of luck breeding this species.

 

[Kruszakus]

The male got on top of the female and did his job after only four days from his final moult - that was was quick!

I hope you will do good with this species as well, but you are the man, so I'm sure it will be a success.

 

[yen_saw]

Thanks for the blessing Kruzakus. Just 6 weeks ago I never thought of breeding this species especially when my "intensive" cooling period resulted in males maturing two molts ahead of the females. Well, just 2 weeks after the first ootheca was layed, few nymphs hatched out. So the female did mate (while i was not looking) and layed her first ooth in a week. It still amazed me how fast a female is capable of producing fertile ootheca and 2 weeks later the ootheca hatched, everything happened in 3 weeks! All in all, i am glad there goes another successful breeding. Another diary thread closeout for me.

 

[Kruszakus]

I hope you will stick to this for a while, I'm gathering some heating equipment and some net cages and I think I would like to give this species a shot - temperatures near the fridges in my cellar are around 14-16C so it would not be a problem to cool them down, I even have a small fridge that could be used for diapause purpose only... and it would be nice to have them around.

By the way - a little comparison with the Idolomorha - three females laid 13 oothecae within three weeks of adulthood! Nice, isn't it? How's the ratio with you Empusa like?

 

[king_frog]

Wow, the antena on that species are so cool.

 

[Christian]

Another diary thread closeout for me

I wouldn't be so sure. Two larvae isn't very good. There have to be more, 12 to 25. This is particularly one of the species which reveals only after several generations if one did it right. As I pointed out some months earlier, it is not known if it requires a diapause or not. It may breed for one generation, but fail to do so in the next. So it's really important that you continue this species, if possible. Otherwise you cannot draw any conclusions about the breeding of this species. I do it the conservative way, e. g. with diapause, so we could compare after a few years. So, if you have to give up something, please keep this one.

 

[yen_saw]

By the way - a little comparison with the Idolomorha - three females laid 13 oothecae within three weeks of adulthood! Nice, isn't it? How's the ratio with you Empusa like?

Empusa sp. are quite capable of producing multiple oothecae in short period of time, your females are just doing her thing Yeah the same as my female Empusa fasciata too, she produced like 8 oothecae so far in less than 20 days. My second female is on the way to mass ootheca production, she just deposited a huge ooth (her first) this morning.

I wouldn't be so sure. Two larvae isn't very good. There have to be more, 12 to 25. This is particularly one of the species which reveals only after several generations if one did it right. As I pointed out some months earlier, it is not known if it requires a diapause or not. It may breed for one generation, but fail to do so in the next. So it's really important that you continue this species, if possible. Otherwise you cannot draw any conclusions about the breeding of this species. I do it the conservative way, e. g. with diapause, so we could compare after a few years. So, if you have to give up something, please keep this one.

Sorry to dissappoint you Christian The first ooth hatched out only 5 nymphs, but it was from a very small ooth i don't think it contained more than 8 eggs in that ooth. I am hoping her larger ooth will give a better hatching rate and her mass production will give a good size of captive bred for next generation. Although i have to say that i am not sure if i have enough time to breed for the next generatin and you and a few other fellow members here know why . However, it has been fun and challenging.

 

[Kruszakus]

Yeah - like three ooths in five days - man, this is shocking - but this is a good thing, I was worried that my recent loss of one female would affect me, but now I can relax. I just collected twelve ooths, and when I let the females return on top of the lid, one immediately deposited an ooth - wow!

Tell me Yen, is there a woman in your house?

 

[Christian]

The larger ooths are often infertile. I don't know why. There are fertile ooths of considerable size in this species, but if they are too long, often nothing hatches. I am somewhat puzzled abou this, as other species usually lay smaller ooths when infertile. However, I saw it in Hymenopus and Deroplatys, too. The only possible explanation is that unfertilized females retain their eggs as long as possible and the amount in the ovaries rises to a level higher than in females depositing regularly. I am not sure if this is the reason, but as a general, extremely large ooths in Empusids should rise some skeptisism. As usual, the ooths should look "well-formed". They don't have to be large. 5 larvae are ok. It's on the lower scale but ok. Sometimes the subsequent ooths yeald more larvae than the first. This is also somewhat unique for Empusids.

All in all, those guys are particular in almost every part of their life cycle.

@ Yen: Regarding the other stuff, see PM.

 

[Kruszakus]

Wait a mo'...

So Empusa is in hiatus of sort during the colder period, right? Then when it gets warmer it matures within a couple of weeks, mates and a few weeks laters another generation is ready?

But this would leave a couple of very warm months for the next generation to live in, they would not have a chance for a diapause.

Can you alterate diapause periods every second generation?

 

[Christian]

The adults are usually found between April and June in the Mediterranean. The laid ooths hatch usually at some time in July. The larvae grow during the warmest time of the year until at some time in October the development is slowed down, triggered by the shorter days. They are then subadult or one instar below and spend the winter months in this stage. In spring, the development is completed as the days get longer and the temps rise and the last molt is then in April or May, depending on year.

If the three species ocurring in Europe undergo more than a generation per year in warmer climates (N-Africa, Arabia, India) is not known to me. It is well possible that they have a summer and a winter generation there. More than two generations is unrealistic for any Empusid, although people achieve more generations in captivity by "powerbreeding" in Blepharopsis. I try/tried to have no more than two generations per year in the desert species (Hypsicorypha) and one per year in Empusa pennata.

Regardless of the actual number of generations per year, I ALWAYS offer a diapause in the winter generation. Most people just don't do it, however, often the species are "worn out" after several generations then. This is always termed as inbreeding by most guys instead of just offering them a diapause in winter. It hasn't to be very severe in N-African species, usually just putting the container in some cooler corner of the room for some weeks and adhusting the duration of daylight is sufficient. Only Mediterranean Empusa need a somewhat more severe diapause. It is just unnatural to me to do powerbreeding in a non-tropical species. Furthermore, it wasn't never successful until today. That's why I asked Yen to try it for several generations. You just can't draw any conclusions in Mediterranean species after just one generation.