The only mantis species i ever released was chinese mantis. But doubt any survive in my backyard. Guess that's why so many nymphs hatched out from single ootheca.
Escaped mantis vs Environmental damage
- Thread starter captainmerkin
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And I thought you would have wanted to start up a wild population of "Texas Unicorn " mantids in the Houston area! They are native to Southern Texas. Why not get em started in central Texas?
I actually started this post as a joke. After thinking about it, I think you could release that species in Houston legally. At least your unicorn mantids are a native of Texas. Those Chinese are an introduced species.
I actually started this post as a joke. After thinking about it, I think you could release that species in Houston legally. At least your unicorn mantids are a native of Texas. Those Chinese are an introduced species.
captainmerkin
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I really don't think that stating "they cant really do much damage honestly can they" is a very good approach..
I am sure that those words have been uttered many times before "oooh yeah I know, Cane toads they wont do any real harm will they"
and "ok predatory snails will obviously not want to eat all our dinky little polynesian tree snails now will they", "nah it will be fine"..
I think in the UK there is a very low risk of escapees surviving the winter unless they are very hardy.. but none the less you cant rule out a mated mantis escaping out a window and finding a warm garage with a boiler to lay its ooths.. plenty to eat in the average garage as well certainly at least for a female (maybe not all the sprogs though).. and if the ooths hatch out in spring or later, then you have a real cycle on the go.
But realistically I still am not sure that this would happen, though I bet nature will prove some of us wrong in time.
Even putting the idea of deliberately releasing non regional mantis into someones head is not a good idea, some people out there like to see their animals flourish and that can really cause problems if they do!
I am sure that those words have been uttered many times before "oooh yeah I know, Cane toads they wont do any real harm will they"
and "ok predatory snails will obviously not want to eat all our dinky little polynesian tree snails now will they", "nah it will be fine"..
I think in the UK there is a very low risk of escapees surviving the winter unless they are very hardy.. but none the less you cant rule out a mated mantis escaping out a window and finding a warm garage with a boiler to lay its ooths.. plenty to eat in the average garage as well certainly at least for a female (maybe not all the sprogs though).. and if the ooths hatch out in spring or later, then you have a real cycle on the go.
But realistically I still am not sure that this would happen, though I bet nature will prove some of us wrong in time.
Even putting the idea of deliberately releasing non regional mantis into someones head is not a good idea, some people out there like to see their animals flourish and that can really cause problems if they do!
Asa
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As I said, just don't let them escape :wink: .
captainmerkin
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thats a very naive attitude I think, I bet plenty of people here have had the odd mantis or two escape in their time despite their best efforts.
My question is not about how to stop them escaping its about the (what I consider) inevitability of some escaping at some stage and what the consequences would be to the environment.
I agree that the release of non-native mantids is inevitable. I worked in a research lab in a university and saw many near escapes. I am sure there were a few escapees that actually DID get away. So I could easily see a hobbiest loosing a couple. I have young kids who would love to take out some of my mantids. I have to keep mine under lock and key!
I don't think the more sensitive tropical species would survive a UK winter. But several species found in the US would. Fortunately, the impact would be minimal, IMHO! As a generalist predator, it could eat most insects in England. But it would not eat all of them. To do so would result in the mantids starving. Also, mantids suffer such high, natural, mortality that population numbers would never reach "epidemic" proportions. Thus a reproducing population could be established, but shouldn't be too destructive. But lets try not to test my hypothesis out!!
I don't think the more sensitive tropical species would survive a UK winter. But several species found in the US would. Fortunately, the impact would be minimal, IMHO! As a generalist predator, it could eat most insects in England. But it would not eat all of them. To do so would result in the mantids starving. Also, mantids suffer such high, natural, mortality that population numbers would never reach "epidemic" proportions. Thus a reproducing population could be established, but shouldn't be too destructive. But lets try not to test my hypothesis out!!
Asa
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Probably zip.
captainmerkin
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perhaps you would care to ellabourate?
that sounds just like the logic that has caused so many problems in the past for indigenous species..
"Recon all these rats we let off the boat on this island will cause any real damage... nope probably zip."
I am trying to get a balanced view from people with experience, rather than just a straight yes or no which is utterly useless as a comparison.
Hypoponera for example makes a good balanced argument as do many others!
Im not going to be having a go at anyone that keeps non native species, but its good to not bury your head in the sand and pretend if things go wonky its all going to be ok.
Asa
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:lol:
Note that I said probably on previous posts. It's a logical disability to assume that something will not happen. I'm not too big on this stuff, so the only way I can elaborate, is plainly to do your best to not allow them to escape, and if they do, mourn their death. A rather simplistic idea.
Note that I said probably on previous posts. It's a logical disability to assume that something will not happen. I'm not too big on this stuff, so the only way I can elaborate, is plainly to do your best to not allow them to escape, and if they do, mourn their death. A rather simplistic idea.
Is there a limit as to where or how far can you release a native species within a state? Texas is a huge state. So far the Texas Unicorn ootheca hatched out without needing a diapause. It gets pretty cold during winter even in Dallas (middle of Texas) and i really doubt any could survive the winter up North Texas. Maybe i should put one Texas Unicorn ooth in the fridge as experiment.
While state laws vary, I doubt you would get into any legal trouble. You would be releasing not only a state-native species, but also a benificial. You should be safe releasing them anywhere in Texas. Besides, you can legally release the introduced Chinese in most, if not all, states. If you can release an introduced species, I would think releasing a state-native to do the same job would be OK. It might even be prefered!!
Now the problem would be if I released those Texas unicorns here in New Mexico. They are not native to my state and so release could have legal problems. But at least I might be able to claim that the unicorns are a US native. I can legally release the Chinese so a native of Texas "should" be OK for release. Fortunatly, if I get any of your unicorns, I don't think I would be releasing them!!
Now the problem would be if I released those Texas unicorns here in New Mexico. They are not native to my state and so release could have legal problems. But at least I might be able to claim that the unicorns are a US native. I can legally release the Chinese so a native of Texas "should" be OK for release. Fortunatly, if I get any of your unicorns, I don't think I would be releasing them!!
Do we still consider chinese mantis an introduce species? It has been in the USA for a long time and also an established species. If you can release introduce species, any import species can be intorduce into the wild which is wrong.
Mike, please find those elusive Arizona unicorn mantis!!
Mike, please find those elusive Arizona unicorn mantis!!
I believe the Chinese, European, Narrow-wing and Mediterrainian are now considered "naturalized" species. Does anyone know if and where the species other then the Chinese are being released as biocontrol agents?
I wish I could find the Arizona unicorn! I tried for several years when I lived in Tucson. The only one I ever found was in the teaching collection though. It's data label said it was caught in Tucson. I searched and black-lighted every mountain and hill within a 2 hour drive of the city. No luck! I am beginning to think the species was invented as a cruel joke!!
I wish I could find the Arizona unicorn! I tried for several years when I lived in Tucson. The only one I ever found was in the teaching collection though. It's data label said it was caught in Tucson. I searched and black-lighted every mountain and hill within a 2 hour drive of the city. No luck! I am beginning to think the species was invented as a cruel joke!!
Asa
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Just a few months ago, I went on a searching spree for those mantids. I also am beginning to believe they are fake. I had an entire team of entomoligists looking for it!
awesomebillfromdawsonvill
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The suggestion to yen to start a wild uinicorn pop in his city? I just wanted to say heck yeah to that!!! Thats probly legal.... right? Any ways thats the best ideas ive heard all day, go for it! Unicorns are mybe a little endagered even, no? I thought that they are some what rare in the wild, and i would not be surpised to find that was becasue of human tampering, so a little bit of human help would not hurt... right? sure.... lolz :lol:
I am still playing with the thought of releasing Texas Unicorn nymphs, I have lot of them right now, but still wary of releasing them in the public park, partly due to the everlasting rain here in Houston area.
Our laws here in Ohio, are that nothing can be added (as in plants, animals, insects, avian, fish) to any park, lake, roadway or other, or taken away. I wanted to sow seeds along the highways to change the ugly view, (u know where the grass is) but decided to look it up first, good thing I did. I'ds be in jail now. lol!
I believed there is no difference between Texas and Ohio law in releasing animal in the park. I better find out in advance, thanks Rebecca!
Rob Byatt
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To me it is just common sense to not release a non native species, regardless of the laws.
