Escaped mantis vs Environmental damage

[Asa]

I wouldn't want to release any of my non native species. They are my babies.

 

[captainmerkin]

In the UK it can be highly illegal to release native species into areas.

For example slow worms (these are legless lizards and considered protected in the UK), you can capture them, breed them, but you cannot release them into the wild again without autorisation.

Basically this is because of desease, releasing non regional animals into an area where they are not currently dispersed, damage to food chains etc..

I would imagine that taking unicorn mantis breeding them and releasing a truck load of them where there are not any would carry a suitable sentence just like dumping a load of slow worms in london would without permission from the relevant parties.

Law is not my strong point but I don know a few baiscs of species re-introduction or dispersal where they are not established, more over the rules with certain things in the UK.

 

[Asa]

Unfortunately, in the US, things aren't anywhere near as strict.

 

[captainmerkin]

Unfortunately, in the US, things aren't anywhere near as strict.

I am sure that there is some legislation surely? But the US is a bloody huge place, must be very hard to regulate that kind of this to be honest, it certainly isnt an easy matter in the UK from what I gather either!

I think that common sense also takes a big part in peoples attitudes towards this kind of thing as well, that goes for all over the world.

 

[yen_saw]

Just told by an entomologist here that releasing in the public area (not including designated parks) is OK providing that the species is not new to the region, but permission is still needed from USDA as to ensure no parasites or diseases are brought in with the released species. It has been done before, releasing butterfly/bee when the region needs them to establish a balance ecology. When i asked about Texas Unicorn in Houston, the answer is no!! and the person also told me an interesting fact. THat is eventhough Texas is a huge state, 98% of the land are privately own, so it is like loosing some bugs in someone else backyard if releasing them accidentally. That is a serious crime!! However, i agree that it is very hard to control.

 

[Christian]

Hi.

Releasing animals into new areas may be illegal in some countries, or just not much appreciated in others. But, as Rob said, it is just common sense not to do it anyway. There are a lot of examples where this happened in the past, and in most cases the damage was higher than the use.

I agree that mantids are not really dangerous. Their impact on an ecosystem is very low, particularly in the depauperate Nearctic and Palearctic Region. The Ice Ages killed out most subtropical taxa, and while the Nearctic was repopulated by some taxa and is more diverse today than similar Palearctic regions, mantids were not much among those reinvaders. Over here, the Alps hindered some taxa to repopulate former regions, and, regarding mantids, only M. religiosa managed to go as far north. So, comparing to East Asia, the Northern Ecosystems can support more mantid species than they own today. That's the reason why 4 (!) mantid species could establish in N-America. At least one of them (T. sinensis) was introduced intentionally, as past control agent. Well, this role may be questioned, as they also feed on bees and other beneficial insects (they are "ecologically indifferent"), but this was found out later when the species became established throughout the whole East-Coast. Other invaders were by far less "indifferent" and cause major costs in agriculture and elsewhere. That's why nothing from the hobby should be released, regardless if it is native to other parts of the country or not. This is, by the way, exactly the reason for the strict pet laws which appeared in America some time ago. Every attitude like this gives the sceptics right and complicates life for all serious hobbyists.

If a species is already there and fits well into the ecosystem, ok, let's have it a good life. But releasing new ones intentionally is really not a good idea. Even a mantid may turn out to become a threat for something native, even it this is also a mantid, as already has been seen in Tenodera sinensis vs. Stagmomantis carolina. So, guys, just don't do it!

Phyllovates chlorophaea is a tropical genus. It reaches Texas SE just because the favorable climate there. The proximity to the Gulf favors mild winters, and this is the only reason the species can survive there. Do you really think the species would not occurr elsewhere today if it just could support it?

So, it's really better just to breed your stuff and to have fun. Mankind damaged natural ecosystems enough, don't you think? :wink:

Regards,

Christian

 

[Asa]

I agree with Christian.

 

[awesomebillfromdawsonvill]

bah! i say Bah! How do you know that the only thing stopping them from spreading up further is not due to natural ecosystems damaged by mankind? Most manti reproduce and spew out hundreds of nymps at a time, and very few of these survive in nature. It would not be hard to belive that we would very eaisly impact a mantid population, simply by living in the same area, destroying thier oths and killing or poisning preg females. with all develpment and pollution in areas like texas, i imagine there are just less native manti anyways. i know i rarley see any in my area, (austin). But its all a moot point as most of texas is made up of hard asses and like he says its all been bought and sold. No need to risk getting in trouble or going to jail , but i do think that this and many other species are probly being held back due to the tampering of man. One day it will all be concrete anyways :lol: jk (hopefully).

 

[captainmerkin]

bah! i say Bah! How do you know that the only thing stopping them from spreading up further is not due to natural ecosystems damaged by mankind? Most manti reproduce and spew out hundreds of nymps at a time, and very few of these survive in nature. It would not be hard to belive that we would very eaisly impact a mantid population, simply by living in the same area, destroying thier oths and killing or poisning preg females. with all develpment and pollution in areas like texas, i imagine there are just less native manti anyways. i know i rarley see any in my area, (austin). But its all a moot point as most of texas is made up of hard asses and like he says its all been bought and sold. No need to risk getting in trouble or going to jail , but i do think that this and many other species are probly being held back due to the tampering of man. One day it will all be concrete anyways :lol: jk (hopefully).

could you 100% gurantee that what you release is completely desease free?

Could you also guarantee that this will have no impact whatsoever on the local habitats?

I really do not think that you could even partially begin to gurantee these things, and I would also hazard a guess that you are not a parthologist able to assess you insects for desease be it dormant or active.

Personally I would like to think that anyone with an interest in these kind of animals would have a degree of respect for their environment and the common sense to not go throwing something into it that was not already there... but then again people are people and will to the end of humanity prove very very good at making very bad descisions based on their own instincts.

Admittedly I would love to see mantis in the UK living in the wild, but right now that is just not going to happen until nature sees fit... or some moron sets some free somewhere daft thinking its cool or good for the environment or for the animals.

Just stick to breeding your critters, trading your critters and having fun with them (they really are awesome things), but dont get delusions of grandure and go setting them free on a whim