Help with my wimpy L6s

[MantidLord]

Okay, this is my first thread , so be gentle. Here is the story:

I have 8 Iris oratoria nymphs: 1 L5, 3 L4s, and 4 L6s. (which I assume is sub-adult) . My L6s turned L6 on Sunday evening, and I left them alone. A couple of hours later, I put some fruit flies in there (hydei), and they ate them...all. It was a massacre, :blink: and they weren't full. As to be expected, They tower over the flies. So I waited a day, and gave two small crix to each mantis. *Now I know alot of you are against feeding crix to your mantids, but bare with me. My mom can barely put up with fruit flies, so there's no way I can have flies, roaches, or anything else in the house. Anyway...The mantids didn't eat the crix. They just looked at them, because the crickets are clumsy, and make a scene. But the mantids were up top, and the cricekts on the bottom of the container. So, I fixed it to where the crix can climb up to the mantids. But for all four mantids (in seperate containers), when a cricket came to them, they would go in extreme defense posture (abdomen curled up, front legs spread wide, etc.) and strike the cricket down. :angry: So I just kept feeding the spoiled L6s fruitflies . But all my flies were eaten, and now I just have pupae and maggots in the two cutlures I have. And the other four mantids can't take crickets yet, so they're completely dependent on Fruit flies. And now that they've molted to their current stages as of yesterday (I'm not talking about the L6s now), they haven't eaten anything, and I fear starvation. So here are my questions:

1)When should my fruit fly pupae hatch, if they started appeaing on Monday/Tuesday.

2)Do you guys think my young mantids (not the L6) will survive untill the fruit flies hatch.

3)And finally, what the heck should I do about the L6s!!!

I've just left them alone, and nothing's happened. I've selected really small crix for them when they were L5 and they ate them. Now they are afraid! Should I just give them a choice: Eat or Starve? Or continue on babying them with fruitflies until they molt to L7 (Which I think is an adult. Please correct me if I'm wrong)? Please help me with these guys, I've raised them since L1 (They are wild caught). Thanks to anyone in advance, I really don't want these guys to starve.

P.S. I almost forgot. For some reason, I've lazily determined the sex of the four L6s, all female. But as I look at them, the two that I am 85% sure are females, have 6 segments. While the other two, I can't get a good view, as I'm not sure if there is a segment near the anus, or if I include that AS a segment. I know you guys probably can't help me out with this, but does anyone know of any dominant female sexual ratio with this sp.? Thank-you very much. I will update if anyone post. please reply

 

[galapoheros]

Mine have one molt to go. I've fed them a few times by Turing over the top they hang down on so that they are out in the open and standing up. But first I get a roach, in your case a cricket or even something from the porch light. I know the positions on catching wild food but I don't worry about it. You could get a moth or something else they will eat. Anyway you can kill the cricket my smashing the head. Get some hemostats or tweezers. Hemostats are better IMO because I can judge better at what time I would like to let go of the cricket when I feed it. To feed them like this I barely grab the food with the hemostats and bring the smashed end of the food to the mouth parts of the mantis. If it's hungry it will start eating and will finally grab the food and eat. The ones I have usually don't go into a defense stance when I bring the food up to their mouth, it's almost like they aren't visually focused on what I put there in front of them, seem a little confused at the moment but then start eating if they are hungry.

 

[Krissim Klaw]

I've had a few nervous eaters before, and I just give them time. So far I have not a had a mantis yet who won't drop the picky nervous eating habit to keep from starving. I feed crickets all the time without problem. Usually I drop them in might coax the cricket in their direction to speed the process up. If the mantis isn't in the mood and acting finicky I just leave them alone for an hour or two. If the mantis still hasn't eaten at that point I just remove the cricket until the next day when I'll try again. Usually it seems like fear behavior among my mantises often equals, I'm really not that hungry right now so I rather not fuss with that prey item.

 

[MantidLord]

Thanks alot for your input guys. @Bytorsnowdog: I actually had to hand feed them crix at L5, before they started catching them for themselves. But after seeing them catch crix by themselves at L5, I'm positive they can catch them at L6. If push comes to shove, and the mantids are starving anymore, I'll have to hand feed them. thanks.

@ Krissim Klaw: I have observed that behavior with especially one of the L6 mantids. It's a male (after reading rick's male and female thread, I sexed all four of the: two males and two females), and the smallest of the four. When it was L5, it was extremely afraid of the crix, and never caught one. It only ate a cricket once during its L5 stage, and I hand fed it that. He is the only one that never caught a cricket for himself. I figured they would eat the crickets when they get hungry, but I got nervous with this particular mantis (as it didn't eat for days), and hand fed it. I bet if I would have waited, it would have caught it. I was paranoid But your right. When I went on vacation for a couple of days (when they were L5), I put a cricket in one of there cages, I guess the starvation drove the one mantis to capture it, because I came back to see the severed parts of the cricket :blink: . So hopefully everything will turn allright.

Thanks again everyone.

P.S. After posting the original post of this thread, I checked on the fruitfly coulture, and there were two flies, so hopefully they will start to hatch.

 

[galapoheros]

Maybe one of the problems is that crickets wouldn't be a natural food item for them in the wild. Most crickets are very terrestrial, run around on the ground where most mantises wouldn't be. They are still good food though, I see that. It seems to me that most mantises are genetically programmed primarily to strike at flying prey like moths and butterflies. Crickets may instinctively seem kind of strange to them but I've seen them look and go for crix. Flying things though seem much more an instinctive prey for them. So it might not be the case that they can or can't catch crickets but that it may not be their instinct to catch crickets, so I'd hand feed crix if they don't seem interested in crix.

 

[hibiscusmile]

What a wonderful bunch of replys you got, everything they said is good advise. If you can try a earthworm, just dont let mom know u got it. The tweezers or even a sharp stick you could polk thru the feeders will really help you, but really when they get hungry enough, they will lose their fear and attack. There is nothing wrong with feeding crickets to most mantis. My Texans, are a real scardy bunch, I have to put the cricket in with them and it takes them about 5 minutes before they will catch it. The trick I find really works is to have them in a clear plastic cup an put the cricket in with it. The texan will settle down once I put the lid back on, when it is good and settled I then gently roll the cup around so that the cricket rolls around to, the mantis will then notice it and because it is all going real slow it will usually catch it and all is well!

 

[MantidLord]

Thank-you all. After a couple of hours yesterday, I went in my room and decided to hand feed them crickets. It took a while with the first one, but then I cut the crickets antennae, and put it to the mantids mouth (the only thing the mantis wasn't aware of). Soon he started eating the antennae, which led to the cricket. So I used this tactic for the second mantis. The third, As soon as I put the cricket near her, she grabbed it and started eating eat. And as I prepared to hand feed the last one (which happened to be the small one that never caught a cricket), I notice that he had all ready eaten and saw the cricket legs in the container. So all ended well.

@bytorsnowdog: No, they eat crickets primarily, because there are both mantids and crickets outside. Plus, Last year I fed a couple of wild caught adults on crickets. I see what your saying about flying insects, but keep in mind, I've been feeding them flightless fruitflies their whole life, so they should be used to the terrestrial. Thanks alot, and I ended up hand feeding them with a sharp stick. (very graphic :blink: , I was surprised the mantis ate it).

@hibiscumile: I would try an earthworm, but seeing as I live in a wasteland desert, lol, I can never find any earthworms. I am getting interested in feeding them flies (I actually did feed one three flies while it was L4), but a fly came in the hourse from outside (not my container), and I got blamed for it. So that ended that experiment.

Thank you all. (Mantids say thanks too).