Horrible Shooting

[Mëluzynn]

What God have to do with that ? This is not about God, this is about free will.

God is always the excuse to do horrible things and he is still the right culprit when these horrible things happen.

And who are we to decide that God was right, or wrong?

This massacre is a horrible thing for the families of the victims, for the friends of school and for colleagues, for all those closely affected by this tragedy...

But put the blame on God is too easy. It is looking for an easy way while the problem is a societal one.

It reminds me of this story in 1985 where Judas Priest had been accused of being responsible for the suicide of two adolescents who have found subliminal messages while listening to a song backwards... Perfect guilty... There was a trial and it has clearly demonstrated that it was the family context that was problematic.

What about the family and social context of the guy that killed these children? Why his mother kept as many weapons At home ? What really happened ? And what could be done to avoid this?

Those are the right questions.

 

[agent A]

well wish me luck today, someone got arrested for making threats to my area schools and there r lots of security people around the school <_<

 

[patrickfraser]

I heard on a news program that the killer was home-schooled by his mother due to his social awkwardness and was said to have Asperger syndrome. He was a full time job for his mother. I guess if you want to blame someone, blame his mother. She was aware of his problem and responsible for the guns that were used in the shooting (legally registered). Just like the parents of the theater shooting killer, she was aware of his "problems". Such a shame.

 

[angelofdeathzz]

What God have to do with that ? This is not about God, this is about free will.

God is always the excuse to do horrible things and he is still the right culprit when these horrible things happen.

And who are we to decide that God was right, or wrong?

This massacre is a horrible thing for the families of the victims, for the friends of school and for colleagues, for all those closely affected by this tragedy...

But put the blame on God is too easy. It is looking for an easy way while the problem is a societal one.

I believe I did say "God doesn't work that way" ? I don't blame the heavens in any way, just saddens me.

 

[Mëluzynn]

I believe I did say "God doesn't work that way" ? I don't blame the heavens in any way, just saddens me.

It was a general reflexion, I wasn't pointing at you

We heard the same in Switzerland, even this morning at the but station, a woman says : How can God allow that ? Speaking of the tragedy in CT.

It was something I had on my mind, just had to express that.

 

[patrickfraser]

They do say God works in mysterious ways. Not our paygrade to understand.

Isaiah 55:8-9 (King James Version)

For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

 

[agent A]

Problem is the mother didnt get him the proper help

She just pulled him away from society and hid him, desensitizing him to people and making it easier for him to go off and kill them

 

[patrickfraser]

I think I mentioned that, didn't I. The mother is to blame.

I heard on a news program that the killer was home-schooled by his mother due to his social awkwardness and was said to have Asperger syndrome. He was a full time job for his mother. I guess if you want to blame someone, blame his mother. She was aware of his problem and responsible for the guns that were used in the shooting (legally registered). Just like the parents of the theater shooting killer, she was aware of his "problems". Such a shame.

 

[agent A]

I think I mentioned that, didn't I. The mother is to blame.

And i was agreeing with u and adding to it

 

[Reptiliatus]

I'm hosting a prayer devotional in my community tonight to pray for the victims of this tragedy.

Religiously I am a Bahai. Since everyone else is sharing beautiful prayers I would like to also share a prayer for the departed.

"O my God! O my God! Verily, thy servant, humble before the majesty of Thy divine supremacy, lowly at the door of Thy oneness, hath believed in Thee and in Thy verses, hath testified to Thy word, hath been enkindled with the fire of Thy love, hath been immersed in the depths of the ocean of Thy knowledge, hath been attracted by Thy breezes, hath relied upon Thee, hath turned his face to Thee, hath offered his supplications to Thee, and hath been assured of Thy pardon and forgiveness. He hath abandoned this mortal life and hath flown to the kingdom of immortality, yearning for the favor of meeting Thee.
O Lord, glorify his station, shelter him under the pavilion of Thy supreme mercy, cause him to enter Thy glorious paradise, and perpetuate his existence in Thine exalted rose garden, that he may plunge into the sea of light in the world of mysteries.

Verily, Thou art the Generous, the Powerful, the Forgiver and the Bestower."

‘Abdu’l-Bahá

 

[Mëluzynn]

I'm hosting a prayer devotional in my community tonight to pray for the victims of this tragedy.

Religiously I am a Bahai. Since everyone else is sharing beautiful prayers I would like to also share a prayer for the departed.


"O my God! O my God! Verily, thy servant, humble before the majesty of Thy divine supremacy, lowly at the door of Thy oneness, hath believed in Thee and in Thy verses, hath testified to Thy word, hath been enkindled with the fire of Thy love, hath been immersed in the depths of the ocean of Thy knowledge, hath been attracted by Thy breezes, hath relied upon Thee, hath turned his face to Thee, hath offered his supplications to Thee, and hath been assured of Thy pardon and forgiveness. He hath abandoned this mortal life and hath flown to the kingdom of immortality, yearning for the favor of meeting Thee.
O Lord, glorify his station, shelter him under the pavilion of Thy supreme mercy, cause him to enter Thy glorious paradise, and perpetuate his existence in Thine exalted rose garden, that he may plunge into the sea of light in the world of mysteries.

Verily, Thou art the Generous, the Powerful, the Forgiver and the Bestower."

‘Abdu’l-Bahá

That is a beautiful prayer !

Some of you know that I'm muslim (from the chat), we have nice prayers too but I don't know them in english and I'm not able to translate them correctly. Usually we recite the entire Surah Yasin (36), I did it the other day. So I can't share a nice prayer as yours sadly.

In an other way of thinkig, may I ask two questions about US school system ? Please, don't take it as a judgement, it's just a question :

- How can a child be home-schooled without any control ? Specifically a child with a known Asperger syndrom ?

- How a mother of a known mentally ill child can have so much guns at home ?

I don't understand...

 

[Plex]

That is a beautiful prayer !

Some of you know that I'm muslim (from the chat), we have nice prayers too but I don't know them in english and I'm not able to translate them correctly. Usually we recite the entire Surah Yasin (36), I did it the other day. So I can't share a nice prayer as yours sadly.

In an other way of thinkig, may I ask two questions about US school system ? Please, don't take it as a judgement, it's just a question :

- How can a child be home-schooled without any control ? Specifically a child with a known Asperger syndrom ?

- How a mother of a known mentally ill child can have so much guns at home ?

I don't understand...

Many children are home-schooled in the USA, I myself personally know a few people who were homeschooled until they were high school age or until they went off to college. Unfortunately I don't know the details, but as long as specific legal requirements are met and all the legally required testing is completed, it is perfectly legal to homeschool your children freely whether they are known to have a mental condition or not.. and I also know it differs from state to state as well, I'm going by what I know of Michigan's system. I'm sure someone else knows more details about it though..

And as long as the parent has all the permits required and licenses, she is legally allowed to own guns and is trusted to keep it out of the child's reach herself, and there's no way anyone would have known that he would end up killing her and a couple dozen other people using her firearms before it happens... Though my young cousins are not mentally ill, the same thing applies with my grandpa's guns; he is legally allowed to keep them, he has all the permits required, and it is up to the family to make sure they are out of the reach of the children in the house.

Unfortunately she didn't get him the help that he needed early on (counseling, more social interaction, ect) and along with the type of person he naturally was and his mental instability, it led to disaster.

And the prayer are beautiful on here, I agree.. I myself had a small ritual in honor of the victims the other night too.

 

[Mëluzynn]

Many children are home-schooled in the USA, I myself personally know a few people who were homeschooled until they were high school age or until they went off to college. Unfortunately I don't know the details, but as long as specific legal requirements are met and all the legally required testing is completed, it is perfectly legal to homeschool your children freely whether they are known to have a mental condition or not.. and I also know it differs from state to state as well, I'm going by what I know of Michigan's system. I'm sure someone else knows more details about it though..

And as long as the parent has all the permits required and licenses, she is legally allowed to own guns and is trusted to keep it out of the child's reach herself, and there's no way anyone would have known that he would end up killing her and a couple dozen other people using her firearms before it happens... Though my young cousins are not mentally ill, the same thing applies with my grandpa's guns; he is legally allowed to keep them, he has all the permits required, and it is up to the family to make sure they are out of the reach of the children in the house.

Unfortunately she didn't get him the help that he needed early on (counseling, more social interaction, ect) and along with the type of person he naturally was and his mental instability, it led to disaster.

And the prayer are beautiful on here, I agree.. I myself had a small ritual in honor of the victims the other night too.

Ok, I understand about home-schooling, it seems more easy and common to do it in US than here (not a judgment).

 

[Plex]

Ok, I understand about home-schooling, it seems more easy and common to do it in US than here (not a judgment).

Yeah, though it still is relatively rare here compared to the number of kids in public schools and private schools.

 

[agent A]

In an other way of thinkig, may I ask two questions about US school system ? Please, don't take it as a judgement, it's just a question :

- How can a child be home-schooled without any control ? Specifically a child with a known Asperger syndrom ?

- How a mother of a known mentally ill child can have so much guns at home ?

I don't understand...

For the record, not only am i borderline aspergers, i know a few people who have aspergers and while our first impulse when mad at someone is to hurt them in some way, we dont usually act on that impulse (and who has really never thought of killing somebody?) and i know if i were to kill someone, i wouldnt use a gun, too trackable

Secondly, the guy didnt know the kids so he couldnt have been mad at them

He clearly went crazy and without thinking grabbed some guns and killed people

So the attack had nothing to do with this guys aspergers, he probably snapped for some reason

 

[brancsikia339]

Yeah... she was very brave, the teacher who hid all her students..



Also something I saw online and went to the WBC website to verify made me a bit peeved, not sure if this is off topic or not but it seems the WBC came out and said that it was God's retribution against a nation accepting of gays and wants to picket the memorial service.

That deeply upset me... I didn't want to believe anyone would stoop that low. :no:

I saw about that, and I just won't hear it. Westboro baptist church actually said that this was god's handiwork and to praise him for it. THE MOST DISGUSTING, HORRIBLE THING I'VE EVER HEARD. These people disgust me

 

[Plex]

For the record, not only am i borderline aspergers, i know a few people who have aspergers and while our first impulse when mad at someone is to hurt them in some way, we dont usually act on that impulse (and who has really never thought of killing somebody?) and i know if i were to kill someone, i wouldnt use a gun, too trackable Secondly, the guy didnt know the kids so he couldnt have been mad at them He clearly went crazy and without thinking grabbed some guns and killed people So the attack had nothing to do with this guys aspergers, he probably snapped for some reason

I agree here about the Aspergers, forgot to mention that in my post..

I know a number of people diagnosed with it, and they're for the most part normal people aside from having emotional or social issues; nothing like other disorders I've seen or have studied... and I think personally that this person either snapped or had another mental illness that went undiagnosed, as many do.

 

[Mëluzynn]

Yeah, though it still is relatively rare here compared to the number of kids in public schools and private schools.

Thanks for your explanations

For the record, not only am i borderline aspergers, i know a few people who have aspergers and while our first impulse when mad at someone is to hurt them in some way, we dont usually act on that impulse (and who has really never thought of killing somebody?) and i know if i were to kill someone, i wouldnt use a gun, too trackable Secondly, the guy didnt know the kids so he couldnt have been mad at them He clearly went crazy and without thinking grabbed some guns and killed people So the attack had nothing to do with this guys aspergers, he probably snapped for some reason

Alex, I have bipolar AND borderline troubles, so I didn't point my finger on mental illnesses, I'm sick too... But as you said, we can live with our troubles without killing people and/or using illness as an excuse... But who knows, anyone, even mentally healthy people can snap for a reason... The question remains : how to prevent that.

 

[Plex]

I saw about that, and I just won't hear it. Westboro baptist church actually said that this was god's handiwork and to praise him for it. THE MOST DISGUSTING, HORRIBLE THING I'VE EVER HEARD. These people disgust me

I know, it is disgusting. I can't help but feel a bit offended that anyone would claim that about something like this, even if I don't personally believe in a traditional God.. mainly the fact someone would take something like this and twist it to their benefit over an unrelated issue.

 

[Mëluzynn]

I know, it is disgusting. I can't help but feel a bit offended that anyone would claim that about something like this, even if I don't personally believe in a traditional God.. mainly the fact someone would take something like this and twist it to their benefit over an unrelated issue.

I totally agree !